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S&D Railway Trust and Washford Matters

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Andy Norman, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. aldfort

    aldfort Part of the furniture

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    :):Happy::Woot::D:p - Really, Julian I spend about 10 mins a day on NP - if I have some spare time.
     
  2. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Let's be clear here please, the S&DRT is NOT an 'enemy' of the WSR. Whether one part of the WSR regards them as an enemy is another matter....
     
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  3. Bayard

    Bayard Part of the furniture

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    Back in the First World War, someone with your attitude in the Navy sent my grandfather's ship and two others to intercept a German battleship. This was despite everyone being fully aware that the German ship could sink all three British ships before they got in range of their guns. Luckily the German ship hit a mine, otherwise I would not be here.
    The writer, Saki, summed the attitude up as "the reckless courage of the non-combatant".
     
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  4. Lplus

    Lplus Member

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    That's not just off the wall, it's out the door and halfway down the street. Talk about irrelevant.....
     
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  5. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like the Mods have transferred a number of posts onto here from the 'West Somerset Railway Operations' thread, which makes things a bit disjointed, but no matter, we are where we are.

    I don't understand why my post (transferred) should prompt 'Bayard', but I can understand the historical family case he quotes, that is important.

    Unfortunately, it is a simple legal fact/reality, that if the SDRT does nothing, then the provisions of the old Landlord and Tenant Act 1954 Part 2 take effect, and the WSR PLC gets back Washford station and the yard. This is despite my view that the s.25 'Notice to Quit' of 1oth February served by the WSR PLC board via it's Solicitors Clarke Willmott is invalid.

    I didn't write the 1954 Act! It is an awful piece of legislation in these unhappy circumstances, but it is what it is, however draconian it's effect. It's faults and peculiarities have been known for many many years, and there is that 'Groan' moment when a civil litigation Solicitor gets a file on his desk from a commercial property lawyer with a 'Memo' attached - "Please sort this out"! And woe betide the inexperienced civil litigation Solicitor who also does not have a thorough grounding and understanding of property law!

    I, and many others, are doing everything they can do to help the SDRT. This is not helped by the WSSRT and WSRA seemingly being impotent, and not expressing any support for the the SDRT over Washford, and the WSR PLC board being intransigent and adopting a stance of 'The SDRT will go' as per the 'Railway Herald' quote from JJP.

    Cheers,

    Julian
     
  6. Bayard

    Bayard Part of the furniture

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    I think that most people understand that the WSR Plc, or rather its chairman, has in all likelihood, legally hoist itself with its own petard, and I don't think anyone has a quibble about that, but....

    ...it is obvious that there is only one stance that the two charities can reasonably take and it is equally obvious, as you imply above, that taking that stance publicly will achieve nothing constructive, hence my point about fighting a battle you are bound to lose simply for the look of the thing.
     
  7. M Palmer

    M Palmer Guest

    What battleship was that? I could see armoured cruisers or battlecruisers doing lone sorties but I was under the impression that with the High Seas Fleet battleships, if one came out, they all came out. To do otherwise would be.... imprudent.
     
  8. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I too am struggling with this one. I know a British warship, HMS Audacious (a Dreadnought) hit a mine and was lost in October 1914 (something that was kept secret for some time) but German High Seas Fleet battleships usually did what they were built for hence the name "line of battle-ships." German armoured cruisers and battle cruisers did operate alone (like the SMS Emden) as lone merchant ship raiders, but I cannot think of a German battleship lost in this way. The main actions in the North Sea were: Heligoland Bight (late Aug 1914), Dogger Bank (Jan 1915) and Jutland (May-Jun 1916). There's no record that I can find of a single German battleship being engaged by lesser British forces. The nearest, I guess, could be Heligoland Bight in late August 1914 & I quote:
    The heavy fog that lay in the area produced an extremely confusing engagement that hampered the effectiveness of the British attack. The situation deteriorated for the British around 11:00 am as additional German cruisers arrived on the scene. The arrival of the British Commodore Goodenough’s cruisers helped to offset this threat while Commodore Tyrwhitt called for further reinforcement from Vice Admiral Beatty’s battle cruisers. (of the infamous Jutland, "There must be something wrong with our bloody ships today" quote. )These latter warships did a great deal of damage to German forces. By 1:30 pm, the British called off the operation as they became aware of heavier German units en route to the bight.
    The arrival of British reinforcements proved decisive and produced a British victory. Two British destroyers and a light cruiser were badly damaged while one German destroyer and three light cruisers were sunk. The tactical triumph was, however, negligible. Defects in British shells that led to failures to detonate on impact lessened German losses. The battle also could have proven a disaster for the British as the Admiralty failed to notify either Tyrwhitt or Keyes of the presence of Beatty’s battle cruisers, which might have been sunk by British ships mistaking them for the enemy. Even so, the battle did have some strategic impact. Wilhelm II, German Emperor (1859-1941), being fearful of additional losses in the future, ordered that the commander-in-chief of the German High Seas Fleet must ask for his consent before committing to a full-scale battle. This order greatly limited offensive operations of the German High Seas Fleet.
    Serious thread drift! Sorry.
     
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  9. M Palmer

    M Palmer Guest

    My own research turned up the cruisers SMS Bremen and SMS Friedrich Carl sunk by mines but they were both in the Baltic at the time which wasn't really our theatre and frankly were less than terrifying at a 3:1 disadvantage, as their hunters would have to have at least been cruisers themselves.

    The Battle of Coronel fits the hopeless sortie premise but as all the British vessels directly involved were lost, I don't think it can be that either. I suspect @Bayard may have been being allegorical.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2020
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  10. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    I know that the WSR is supposed to have a 'long history' of various 'battles', but I had not realised that in its guise of the GWR Minehead Branch it had suffered during World War I. What next, the demise of the Monmouth Rebellion owing to the fact that the Duke could not disembark at Watchet and take his army on a through train to London ??? :):)

    Happy Easter (Rebellion?) !
     
  11. Bayard

    Bayard Part of the furniture

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    My apologies, it was the Goeben and she was a battlecruiser. She was nominally part of the Turkish navy.
     
  12. Bayard

    Bayard Part of the furniture

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    Ah, that was a part of history of which I was unaware, but would account for the sight, a few years back, of a group of "Sealed Knot" Civil War era soldiers disembarking from a steam special hauled by a GWR locomotive at, I think, Weston Super Mare.
     
  13. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    Indeed the nearest that I could think of was of course in WW2 the Graf Spee with the three cruisers Exeter, Ajax and Achilles......and that could have been in "Grandfather's time?"
     
  14. M Palmer

    M Palmer Guest

    An amphibious assault on Watchet? Oh the humanity! :)

    Aaaahhh... the Goeben! Fair enough then. I withdraw my comment and apologize to @Bayard!
     
  15. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    I think you'll find those re-enactors were civil war deserters-the "Fraid Knot" brigade.:)
     
  16. M Palmer

    M Palmer Guest

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. 6960 Raveningham Hall

    6960 Raveningham Hall Member Friend

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    Happy to see this thread attracting the sort of dross that usually accumulates on the WSR Operations thread!
     
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  18. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Goeben

    Surprisingly surviving until 1973.
     
  19. jnc

    jnc Part of the furniture

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    For the WSRA, the impression I have gained, from a number of very small tea-leaves here, is that some Trustees do understand that failing to openly support the S&DRT is causing significant reputational damage to the WSRA (not to mention that the S&DRT confrontation is causing wider damage to the WSR as a whole), but that other Trustees (for whatever reason) either support the PLC Chairman, or don't wish to have an open break with the PLC. There being no consensus among the Trustees, they and the WSRA all have to remain mute.
    I have no insight into the WSSRT.

    So I think they've all decided that all they can do is hang onto the rails while the iceberg does its thing.

    Noel
     
  20. Bayard

    Bayard Part of the furniture

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    The preservation of steam-powered warships doesn't have the same following as that of steam-powered railway locomotives.
     

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