S&D Railway Trust

True, but there is the danger, if you replace too much, of the loco ending up like George Washington's axe.

 

Every working locomotive, with the exception of new-builds such as 60163, is very much like grandfather's axe *. Boiler replacement every general overhaul, cylinders routinely replaced when too worn for re-bore, frames replaced due to cracking, Wheel replacements, modifications, damage due to accident, incident and wear and tear. Any machine that has been in operation for 50 years is going to have had a great many parts replaced, and most of our locomotives retired 50 years ago.
Someone said of Flying Scotsman "Apart from the nameplates, everything has been replaced. And the nameplates aren't the originals"
* George Washington was not My grandfather.

 

Just as an aside, I'm recently getting sponsored adds from Somerset and Dorset Railway Trust on Facebook

"Help relieve the boredom of lockdown with our magazine - from articles such as upgrading the S&D to double track through to the very atmospheric centre-spread photo of 80043 in the S&D shed at Bath Green Park, there are 40 pages of immersive S&D interest! Includes a handy Trust sales supplement.

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It's a funny thing. My daughter borrowed my computer to order underwear and for several weeks I was greeted by images of lingerie models. I obviously filled in some form or other one day and the adverts changed to those for treatment of urine leakage.

Patrick

 

A likely story!!

 

My wife comes in to spy me ogling locomotives on the PC. She calls it my train porn

Back to the thread

Patrick

 

Ditto, I sometimes think she'd rather I was reading 'Playboy' than Railway Modeller

 

Might I suggest that this explains of the inertia by some groups within the WSR. Some people have mentioned Martin Niemoller.

I mentioned in the WSR thread the story of the guy who was always waiting for the right opportunity and it never came and he ended up dying in a communist prison.

There is another part to the story. As a democratic politician in his state, there had over the previous 30 years been a series of authoritarian rulers, each of whom who had generally made his life difficult (sending him to a very dangerous front in WW1, throwing him in jail) - so he had survived the autocratic imperial authorities, the nationalists, a royal dictatorship, local nazism (when his colleague was murdered), and then the military. In each of these cases, these groups had come to power, been authoritarian but all had collapsed in a few years. So the problem was that when the Communists were coming to power, the democratic politician assumed that this was the same old story and it would be repeated. So hence he did nothing, waiting instead for the inevitable collapse of the latest authoritarian.

He was wrong. The Communists didn't collapse, he was thrown in jail and treated far worse than any of the other authoritarians had ever treated him. And he died there, still waiting for the Communists to collapse.

There is a danger, that when you look at all the upheavals within the WSR over the last few years that some people believe that the current PLC board is just another temporary aberration. That just like all the others, the board will alienate everyone and will burn itself out, because this is what always happens, so there is no need to push back harder. The wrong lessons end up being learnt from recent history. People think that this is temporary but then you end up with a regime that lasts over 40 years.

At the moment the board is currently in its consolidation phase, salami slicing off groups and individuals, but there will be a tipping point where it becomes impossible to get rid of the board if power and resources become concentrated in their hands.

An inflated bill to justify not doing it and to get rid of a perfectly useful locomotive but one which was not owned by a member of the board.

 

More to the point however is that given the current situation there is a very real possibility of the WSR going bankrupt. Clearly it is a threat hanging over many lines, however the various issues over the long term management and structure of the WSR coupled with the real issues of the current board must make this more likley than on other lines

 

There is maybe some complacency that 'this too will pass' and that the risk of going to wall is overstated and that even if it does, the line is 'too big to fail'.

 

Surely now is the time for the WSRA and the WSSRT to be actively working towards forming one supporting charity? Nothing to stop that charity having various groups such as museum and locos to cover existing areas of interest. The combined charity could then formulate an "ideal structure" and a vision of how to make the railway work financially and for the benefit of the community and volunteers. The charity could then work with all groups on the line (inc the plc) to see how this could be achieved.
Maybe a bit simplistic/naive but you have to start somewhere, the question is, are the charities prepared to step up to the plate?

Keith

 

So fractious is this situation becoming that I'm increasingly entertaining the possibility of (let's call them) 'certain undercurrents', previously expressed in post #24215 on p211 of the WSR thread, which the inevitable serious financial consequencies of the current pandemic are doing nothing to dispel.

 

A very sensible suggestion and the whole line should operate as a charity. In these cash-strapped times, every ticket should be leveraged with gift aid in the same way as admissions to museums. The rule is that if a visitor makes a contribution of 10% above the admission price then gift aid can be claimed. If the headline price is dropped by 10% then net-net, the customer pays the same but the receiver gets the benefit. It's an idea that a blind man on a galloping horse couldn't miss.

The problem is that operating as a charity obliges the following of a number of rules. The last individual to suggest this to the Dear Leader was shouted and sworn at in earshot of anyone who happened to be within 200 yards.

What's more important, being allowed to do as you please or solving the cash crisis ?

 

Then everybody shout back at 'The Clown' until it listens .....

 

That Gift Aid idea isn't as nearly as clear cut as it seems, because what you gain in Gift Aid on tickets you lose in thereby having to charge VAT on them. So the cost benefit is pretty marginal. Some railways do it, some don't, but it is by no means an universal panacea for ticketing. (It seems to work better for places where the railway is just one part of a larger attraction for which an entrance fee is charged to the whole site; less well where the railway could be seen as a viable mean sod transport, though there are exceptions - the NYMR fits the latter category but does allow GA to be collected on tickets, but presumably then has to surrender the VAT price.

Don't get me wrong - I think a charitable structure to maximise the tax advantages of Gift Aid is sensible, and having two different charities is somewhat nuts. But you need a proper accountant to work out where you gain and where you lose within the tax system. Transport journeys are zero rated for VAT and visiting an attraction isn't, so reclaiming Gift Aid on tickets inevitably means you lose the advantage of zero rating for VAT of the ticket.

Tom

 

Far be it from me to oppose what seems like basic common sense, but it ain't that simple. On the structural issue, the WSR has suffered from personality clashes which have IMHO been far more important than the structural issues - I suggest that the structural issues have compounded the inter-personal ones, not created the problem in the first place.

As for Gift Aid, unless something's changed relatively recently, selling tickets on a Gift Aid basis isn't as clear a choice as it at first seems for railways - the quid pro quo for taking Gift Aid on tickets has been the loss of the VAT exemption on tickets. I know other railways have investigated this and found that going that way would be of no financial advantage, and possibly even be a financial disadvantage to them. Knowing the admin that's required for Gift Aid claims to be valid, and seeing the time simple transactions take at my local NT property, I also suspect that Gift Aid would lead to a significant increase in the number of people missing trains.

 

However, VAT paid on expenditure items becomes recoverable. The view of a qualified accountant who has the best interests of the WSR at heart would be very welcome.

 

That is a pretty stupid argument as the two are inextricably linked together.

Most people argue that the best course of action is for the WSR to abandon the eviction notice. However, many accept that the only way in which that may happen is if there is a change at the top of the WSR. How to effect that change is obviously of interest to those who want to see both organisations prosper, including resolving the financial issues that have blighted the line and are being used as justification for current management policies.

 

I beg to differ, but currently the WSR operations thread is for discussing the signalling and token arrangements of various narrow gauge lines in Wales and lines in Scotland.

 

We’re only doing that because you hi-jacked the Bluebell thread to talk about the dental risks of eating cake

Tom