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Salvaging important historical locomotive parts from abroad

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Railboy, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. Railboy

    Railboy New Member

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    Hello friends of the British steam,

    as you all know, several British steam engines were sold abroad especially during and after WW2.
    In GB we have brought back some of these survived gems and there are only few left on the continental shelf. Even though we have a lot of rusting locos here in Britain we should still look after for the imperial heritage remained abroad.
    In my opinion, the British heritage groups should somehow try to bring back the locos, which are in danger being scrapped in another country.

    To be honest, to bring back a whole loco needs too many funds and wouldn't be realistic in the coming years. And furthermore, most of these locos are beyond economical repair and ready for scrap! Therefore, I'd like to suggest, that the heritage societies who need scarce and expensive spare parts for their remaining locos here should try to salvage as much as possible from these scrap locos in the foreign countries.

    I want to list three locomotive classes where a rescue of spare parts would be interesting:

    Firstly, I would like to start with the famous LMS Stanier Class 8F:
    Several from locos from this class were brought back to the UK and are operational or under Restauration.
    Turkey has still many locos left in their country (they will surely keep the ones who are being preserved by the museums), but only 2 of them are dumped and in a derelict state. These two locos won't have a bright future in Turkey, apart from being scrapped and sent into the steel works.
    According to Wikipedia there are the following two locos left in a bad state (Number from TCCD): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Stanier_Class_8F

    45173 dumped in Canciri
    45165 dumped in Alasehir

    The groups should try to extract as many useful parts from the locos because the time runs unfortunately away...

    The next class is the War Department class Austerity 2-10-0 built in GB. Several of these locos were sent to Greece where they're still rusting on some sidings. Maybe there are locos worth of being brought back or to be cannibalized before being scrapped...
    Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD_Austerity_2-10-0
    List with WD Numbers (only the dumped ones because the others won't be scrapped):

    (7)3656 dumped in Thessaloniki
    (7)3674 dumped at an unknown Location in Greece
    (7)3684 dumped in Thessaloniki
    (7)3699 Stored derelict at Tithorea

    Greece is currently not in the best state and we don't know when they'll start to clean all the train graveyards.
    Therefore, a purchase of spare parts would be important for the heritage preservation.

    Last but not least I would like to emphasize the importance of securing valuable remains of the remaining USATC S 160 left in a deteriorated state in Greece (why always Greece ;))
    There are several heritage railways who are using or restoring the bought S 160. For them it would be of high importance if they try to get as many spare parts as possible.
    Here's the Wikipedia article of the S160: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Transportation_Corps_class_S160

    And of the designated Greek class SEK Class Θγ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEK_Class_Θγ

    SEK Numbers listed:

    Θγ 525 left in scrapyard condition in Thessaloniki
    Θγ 535 left in scrapyard condition in Thessaloniki
    Θγ 593 left in scrapyard condition in Thessaloniki
    Θγ 576 left in scrapyard condition in Tithorea Depot
    Θγ 532 unknown Location in Greece
    Θγ 584 unknown Location in Greece

    Also, these locos should be considered valuable to the British heritage community and should be at least cannibalized for useful spare parts...

    Are there also dumped S 160 left in Poland?

    These unfortunate locos should have at least in pieces have a future.
    Now it's time to investigate who're the owners of all the remainig spare part locos!

    Regards
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  2. Chris86

    Chris86 Active Member

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    I think @PolSteam is the man for S160 knowledge, he had some fascinating input on the origins of some of the UK survivors.

    Chris
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Just expanding the subject slightly, what other steam locos exist that may be suitable for use in the UK? By that, I'm talking standard gauge and able to fit within the UK loading gauge.
     
  4. nick813

    nick813 Active Member Loco Owner

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    0-6-4t ex ADR in Australia
     
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  5. meeee

    meeee Member

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    Wouldn't you be better off investing in the skills and equipment to manufacture new ones. They you can you have that abilty when the semi knackered bit you robbed off an 8f in a sand dune packs up.

    Tim
     
  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    There are three Beyer-Peacock 2-4-0T in Australia all but identical to ones which ran on the Isle of Wight, but I suspect little chance of bringing them to the UK, and to be fair, I don't believe they are at risk where they are - I took the OP's question to be more about locos that might otherwise face a bleak future.

    Southern Railway W8

    https://transportsofdelight.smugmug...SOUTHERN-RAILWAY/SOUTHERN-RAILWAY/i-p6jmTDX/A

    Australian version

    [​IMG]

    (Image source: http://www.australiansteam.com/sa.htm)

    Tom




     
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  7. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    some locos, notably the 0-6-4t mentioned and the ROD 2-8-0s in Australia are part of Australia's rail heritage now and are not candidates . The OP was careful to concentrate on dumped locos.
     
  8. AndyY

    AndyY Member

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    If we are only talking about spare parts as opposed to complete(ish) locomotives, I wouldn't be surprised if it is easier and cheaper to manufacture them new rather than include transport from wherever they are followed by restoration, re-machining etc.
    The argument for repatriating complete locomotives however goes beyond simple financial considerations, as we are now talking about items with a historical identity.
    Andy
     
  9. mickpop

    mickpop Part of the furniture

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    There were some 'USA' 0-6-0T lookalikes, possibly some actual US built ones , in industrial use in Bosnia and China, maybe some derelict ones in Greece. Don't know if they would fit the UK loading gauge but the recently built Chinese SY 2-8-2s would be handy on preserved lines and there should be a lot of those around - built well into the 1980s [after all there is a Chinese ng 0-8-0 being rebuilt to 1' 11'' gauge at Boston Lodge].
     
  10. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Three 8F's have come back from Turkey . The first and what is now 8274 is needing overhaul at Ruddington

    the following two struggled to attract buyers, one being sold to Israel and one now in the care and ownership of the SRPS at Boness

    There seems to be a snobbishness in Britain that views even something like an 8F albeit a foreign one as less worthy of preservation . Given the climate and reported care they should be in reasonable order and eminently restorable . The Vale of Berkeley railway is trying to secure an 8F boiler for 44901

    re the S160's again I see some really quite derogatory comments at times about them but for one of the growing newer generation lines they should be ideal motive power and perhaps the rise of Polar Express may see the engines in different light . The wD 2-10-0's are also very worthy of preservation

    I would like to see a group create a South African line using british built 3ft 6in gauge stock here in the UK . I suspect it will never happen but it can remain my euromillion pipedream
     
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  11. AndyY

    AndyY Member

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    I do have a liking for the S160's. When I first saw 'Big Jim' on the K&WVR decades ago, my reaction was "Wow, what a fantastic beast! Designed to do a good job, nothing more, nothing less, with no pretensions".
     
  12. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    I don't know if it snobbishness as much as trainspotterism. If it wasn't in their ABC back in the day, many people don't want to know. The same applies to Narrow Gauge,Industrial and Irish locos as well as proper foreign ones. There's no reason why GB enthusiasts wouldn't be equally in rapture over a GNR(I) loco or even more so an LMS(NCC) one but few make the crossing to see them
     
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  13. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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  14. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Member

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    Well, that's my Lotto win pipe dream - I'd love an Ex-Hellenic State Railways WD 2-10-0. Always been very impressed since riding behind 3672 on the NYMR.
    Or there's always the 8F in Baghdad, if it hasn't been blown to pieces... But that one may be much more difficult to repatriate.

    Richard.
     
  15. Coldgunner

    Coldgunner New Member

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    I wouldn't want to be on the team to go there to recover her. However, the latest google earth satellite images seem to indicate she's still there, so she survived the second gulf war at least. Not only have you got the cost of repatriation, but you could be accused of robbing a country of a historical artifact. Look at some of the problems the British museum has had with claims made on artifacts, that were indeed looted in many cases. I think the best approach for the Iraqi loco is to somehow arrange secure storage and protection locally.
     
  16. weltrol

    weltrol Active Member

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    If brought back, it would probably be the only way for the public to see one of these iconic locos as the Liverpool Museum item is seemingly under permanent non public display....
     
  17. Rosedale

    Rosedale Member

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    I remember an Australian poster on here saying that it ought to be possible to repatriate 'The Major' as, unlike the ROD 2-8-0s, it was unlikely to be deemed to be of particular historical importance in as Aus context.

    Also worth considering are the various pretty little British built locomotives which at least until recently survived in Paraguay, including a pair of pretty little Hawthorn Leslie prairie tanks: https://photos.smugmug.com/Trains-R...0/644336ae/S/Paraguay_6_Asunción_1981_a-S.jpg
     
  18. Rosedale

    Rosedale Member

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    Same here. Cape gauge either from Peebles to Talla Dam or from Glenoglehead to Killin would be my desert island project.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  19. Romsey

    Romsey Well-Known Member

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    After too many beers, many years ( 1983 ? ) ago Cape gauge for the Waverley route was discussed between a few friends. The alternative was regauging Barmouth to Pwllheli!
    The back of beer mat conclusion was the Waverley route would cost no more than recreating standard gauge and ex works locos (19D and 24 classes were available from South Africa.)

    Unfortunately the the outline letter proposing the scheme never was sent for publication....

    Cheers, Neil
     
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  20. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    ...... before they sobered up! :cool:
     

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