Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Gladiator 5076, Oct 28, 2020.
For gods sake, does nobody pay attention to terms and conditions these days?
Well yes, but it's never been any different has it? The vast majority of SD customers are not "keen enthusiasts" and you must be aware, if you are on this forum, that SD will almost always run diesel-hauled if steam fails close to the date of travel. Cancellation at this stage, with attendant inconvenience to customers, plus wastage of catering supplies etc. is just not the way they operate. They used to give a smallish credit, around £30, depending on which class you were booked in, if there was a late steam failure, but as far as I can see that has been removed from their T&C's.
Regardless of how reliable an engine is, or has been recently, it does not mean it will be able to run on any day. Nobody knows if a steam locomotive will be on a booked railtour until the day before when the Fitness to Run exam is made. It could run faultlessly the day before, only to have a problem that night and not turn up the next day. You make a booking on a trip knowing this. At least if she doesn't do Thursdays trip, you can transfer your booking to another trip she is rostered on, they're all going from London after all.
I have been booked on the Lincoln trip which is also hauled by Tornado as a birthday present, but I and those that gave me this are fully aware of the fact that it may not be on the front of the train when it pulls into Finsbury Park that morning. Furthermore, you have to look at the destination of the railtour along with what's hauling it. For me, I asked to go on this trip to take the family around Lincoln's Christmas Market as a way of thanking them for doing the treacherous task of riding aboard a steam locomotive which is a personal favourite of mine, for 8 hours, which is grand for me and many, but its not the same for them who don't see that like we or 'enthusiasts' do. People go on these trips to 'get hauled by steam' to a certain destination which they want to visit, most of the time they don't care what it is (except when its advertised as Flying Scotsman but that's a can of worms I won't go into)
If Tornado isn't on the front of the train on Thursday morning, you have the chance of it being Black 5 44871 (it comes down from Carnforth the day before) or a diesel. Whatever it is, either appreciate that it still ran at all and you are going to visit York, or save an early morning getup and go on another trip, with or without Tornado at the head. It happens, and its a part of the hobby we have to accept, whether we're on the trip in question, or have gone out to photograph it.
Would it be out of the question to go round the other way?
I presume you mean Ashford -Dover - Deal - Canterbury West - Ashford? It's possible but certainly not advisable.
The climb from Buckland Jn in Dover to the summit at Guston Tunnel is about two and a half miles a with a gradient around 1 in 70 for much of the climb. There is a 20 mph restriction across Buckland Jn then 30mph for maybe half a mile uphill towards Guston Tunnel. The line is shrouded in trees and undergrowth and takes a 180 degree curve to gain height. It's also a known area for bad railhead contamination.
Heading south, Martin Mill bank on the other hand is getting of for six miles of similar gradients in comparatively open countryside and the lowest speed restriction of about 45 or 50mph at the south end of Deal station. This gives a much better chance of getting a run at the severe part of the climb.
A quick health warning - the gradients are from the Ian Allan gradient profile book , but the rest is from memory.
PS: MODS should this be moved to Clan Line 2021 or Tornado 2021 threads?
It is steeper out of Dover see below
I think the route is that way round, ie the opposite to the norm. That’s why I said it would be too much to expect a single loco to tackle
Before this thread goes completely off the rails, can I mention to @Davo and others that as far as I understand it all that a train ticket or charter train ticket HAS to do is provide you with a journey from your starting point to your destination (and return). That is why, for example, if a journey is cut short then you have to be taken onwards by any means. Many of us recall when Tornado failed in North Wales and the train was eventually terminated at Crewe. Coaches and taxis had to take everyone back to their individual starting stations in the south.
On charters, specific motive power is not guaranteed although obviously, if what is promised is unavailable for no good reason then, morally, any promoter would attempt to provide an acceptable alternative.
Now, moderator's hat on. Forum Rules apply here and so be careful where you take this discussion.
Thanks John, Neil, Paul
I had assumed it was going anti-clockwise from London but even clockwise looks like going up Shap with a 500 ton train in November conditions.............
Just been confirmed by the A1 Trust Tornado will not be on it:
Irrespective of the T&C's in a world where discretionary spend is getting more expensive and income not keeping up people are less happy if the product offered is not what is originally offered
one recent event saw a change made to a program (forced due to weather damage) . one participant after a seven hour drive arrived to find that they were no longer going to enjoy what they had booked for as the change had not been received or possibly communicated . When taken up , a reported public rebuke was offered and participant basically banned on the spot .
I do have sympathy on both sides , as an organiser, late cancellation may not be an option, you are staring at a financial liability , and even if it is, those committed to extra costs would happily travel with plan B so they did not lose out. You inevitably split your bookings in terms of the preferred outcome. From my perspective I try (and i'm not perfect in this) to treat participants as I would hope to be treated were I the participant . Get it right and participants will come back; getting it wrong can be profound.
The A1 Trust’s post says it’s an intermittent valve issue and won’t be running
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see above post John , not flats but a valve issue and not running
Flats are not the problem apparently. So much for the accuracy of social media! Advice on vaccination risks anyone?
Just a quick heads up after speaking to steam dreams booking staff a £15 voucher will be offered or a £45 discount on future steam dreams 2021 or 2022 tours to all passengers not wanting to travel on thurs York tour. but with great regret ile just have to stay in sunny W, Yorks on thurs cos of ongoing mechanical issues with tornado just a month away from its boiler change and middle valve chest needs revamping so I'm sorry for getting irate on nat pres last night and yes I do spend my E.S.A. money on railtours to try prop up their running costs and stick to my 2 day college course at kirklees light railway despite the kick in the teeth yesterday.
Steam dreams have confirmed Thursday will be diesel hauled throughout.
Not sure why 44871 couldn't be used but it could be something as simple as no support crew available at such short notice.
Or trying to run a 75 mph path with a 60 mph loco?
Could be that a 60mph class 5 isn't a suitable replacement on the ECML for a 75mph class 8 or even just that it is already off of Southall at 0500 Saturday morning maybe it being back there at 0200 on Friday morning doesn't suit...
Didn't think of that! There's always one reason someone forgets...
Thus I already have after ringing steam dreams up and discovering I'm or other passengers are entitled to £45 discount on on future SD tours or a £15 voucher and that's what I was told today when talking to steam dreams booking staff if a passenger dosent show at K.G.X on thurs. Unlike what I was advised yesterday when I wasent told all this info now its known the A1 cant be ran cos of the valve issue and i wont put no more posts on this thread about it.
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