Streamlined Duchess, past and future

I'm aware that the Coronation Scot coach set was painted Caledonian blue, and the first batch of Coronation class streamliners were turned out the same way. The next batch though, including Madam Hamilton, had crimson lake as their base colour, just as we can see now at York.
Were matching coach sets painted for these locos, and if so, are there photos of a train in service that anyone knows about? Even b/w pics would be interesting, as they would show if any "go-faster stripes" had been specially applied.

Should (and would) the NRM try to organise a matching rake for 6229 before they okay her for mainline service? If they're thinking of something to wow the media and attract visitors in Olympics year 2012, a Stratford to York streamline steam special wouldn't be bad.

BR Mk 2Ds or later, while totally inauthentic, might offer the right kind of look. We admire them behind 6233 climbing Shap, so why not?
Mods, please don't move this to "Heritage Rolling Stock", as a) the coach set doesn't exist yet, and b) they'd only serve to complement the loco itself.

 

The short answer is Yes, stock in red with gold lining was produced, but it didn't enter service as such. Eight coaches in this livery were finished and sent to America with 6220 (nee 6229), but they ran only one test trip in the UK. Of course, the war came while they were still in the States and their return was long delayed, until after the red / gold era had passed.

They were new stock, unlike the blue / silver vehicles, which were refurbished stock already in service, and were to an entirely new design, including some articulation between vehicles.

 

This photo is credited to British Rail (LMR) and shows the train on test at Bourne End. The loco carries the headlamp for use in the States, but not the bell, which would have seriously infringed the loading gauge! It shows all eight coaches of the train.

 

The Ex Virgin Aircons have stripes

Seriously though, technically it's not all that hard to paint stripes down a set of coaches, it is harder to get a set dedicated to a specific loco like that though, you can forget authenticity mind, even if enough original coaches did survive you would not get them back on the mainline, nearest to an authentic rake 6229 would ever get is the SVR's LMS set.

 

It shouldn't be too hard for NRM to recreate the look and feel of that photo. Thanks very much for posting it by the way, 2968; what was your source at BR?. They could paint up a set of 8 Mk2s, plus a temporary support coach of the same type. Limiting the number of coaches would make timekeeping easier (faster accelerating after stops, easier to reach maximum). It would also push up seat prices, but that wouldn't be the point of having such a train. The point would be to offer unlimited media opportunities to publicise preserved steam in general and the NRM at York in particular.

Should the A4 preservers be a bit miffed by a Coronation hogging the limelight on their premier route, they could always offer 60007/4498 (still with 4 years of boiler ticket left by then) and a set of LNER teaks to run on 6229's days off. Though of course they would have to use the slow line.

 

Hasn't something been forgotten in this thread? The Duchess has only had the casing fitted. It has not been overhauled.

 

Considering the number of railtours and routes now being affected by gauging issues, has anyone given any thought to the dimensions of a streamlined Duchess? And how much its route availabality may be restricted?
Sir Hectimere

 

It's already been lowered, iirc

 

The official York line, as read on these forums (well, they're official, aren't they? :smt002 ), is that 6229 won't complete her overhaul for mainline operation before 2011, they'll obviously want her to attract a bit of custom to the museum first. But surely the NRM would be mad to miss an opportunity like the Olympics, when literally the eyes of the world will be on Britain and any unique tourist attractions we have.
Mad, or just a bureaucracy in public ownership perhaps; so yes, the streamlined Duchess of Hamilton at speed may never happen. But I'm betting it will, and in 2012 too.

 

Not really suprising, even if it was started tomorrow it would probably take up to that date to finish anyway.

 

Well, it is odd that the exhibition (on the NRM website) ends at the end of 2010!

 

The main problem as I see it is that 4472 is taking a significant amount of money, time and effort and also that there are 2 (3 when Nellie returns) locos on the 'big railway' and hopefully within the next 18 months Scotsman can be added to that list.
In my opinion Hamilton won't be resteamed at least until Lamiel or Nellie come off the mainline. I wouldn't object to her being resteamed in the next couple of years though [-o< :smt002

 

Where is the money going to come from to overhaul 46229?

 

I'd guess the HLF and perhaps a Steam Railway appeal. While i wasnt too sure how much interest an appeal would generate, now i've seen her finished i think a lot of people's enthusiasm has been rekindled - she looks amazing...

Chris

 

I take williamfj2's point about 4472. This and not 6229 might be the loco that NRM see as the focal point of any marketing drive in 2012. After all, NRM = York = LNER. Crewe engines are admired, but they just ain't legendary there.

Shame if so, because is Flying Scotsman, one more time into the breach, going to fire Joe Public's imagination like Tornado or Olton Hall/Hogwarts Express (in the case of Joe Public's kids) have? Could "Oh yeah, I remember that one, it had two tenders" be the sort of comment we hear?

A branded streamlined express train, like the one in that photo but living and breathing in colour HD, would, imo, light that fire. Every preserved railway on 6229's route availability would have a chance to benefit in the same way that the WSR just did, or the G&WR at their recent gala, not to mention the cascade effect of national publicity for other lines. Come on NRM, you know it makes sense.

As to where they would find the money, where there's a will, there's a way.

 

I dont think there's a 'regional bias' at York, its very concious its a national museum and the general public arent going to care whether its LNER or LMS. With regard to to the museum's marketing approach in the future, while Scotsman has the name, Hamilton in her new streamlining most definately has the image which is going to help 'sell' steam.

In my opinion, i think there is a very good chance that once Scotsman is out of the way 229 will be the next big loco to be restored. How long till that happens however will probably depend on the economy but also other NRM engines reaching the end of their ticket.

Chris

 

Fair comment on the NRM, Chris. I always was a bit of a conspiracy theorist.

I said "where there's will there's a way". Did you know how much Richard Branson forked out to help buy Flying Scotsman for the nation? Here's how much:
http://www.culture24.org.uk/history/tra ... y/art20844

Now, RB owns a railway on 6229's old stomping grounds, I believe. Their livery is even in the same area of the colour spectrum.

Would the train name "Virgin Duchess" be a price worth paying to see an LMS streamliner running again? Or conversely, would it be worth overhauling 6229, to see a train named "Virgin Duchess"?

Maybe that well-known hobby chef Pete Waterman should invite Branson for dinner.

BTW, is there a smiley for tongue in cheek?

 

Richard Branston does not own a railway, neither does he own any of the Pendolinos, Voyagers or Super voyagers. They're all leased.

Meic Batten

 

Oh excuse me! What I meant was that the Branded Group of which he's chairman owns 51% of the stock in a train operating company. Is that accurate enough for you? And Branson is obviously so indifferent about Virgin Trains, keeps it at such arm's length, that he's only pushing for the franchise to be extended for 20 years - minimum.

 

Now, RB owns a railway on 6229's old stomping grounds, I believe.

I repeat. He does not.

Meic