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SVR Loco Newsy News / discussions

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by acorb, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Even with low annual mileages in preservation I should have thought a good number of big 4built locomotives must be approaching the time when they would have been replaced rather than overhauled back in the day, so it's not altogether a surprise.
     
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  2. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

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    There is no reason why a steam locomotive should not run indefinitely, however, some overhauls will be heavier than others. As things wear out they will need to be replaced. Even Tornado is having a much heavier overhaul than previously expected. You eventually then enter 'Trigger' s broom' territory.

    Whether a locomotive is a 100 years old (on paper) or a new build is irrelevant, it is the condition of its components that is critical. That is why I can never understand why people argue that some locomotives are too old to overhaul. The only limiting factors are of course money and an owner's willingness to replace material.

    The SVR have made it quite clear they expect 4930 to be good for the next 20 years, it is therefore as close to as 'good as new' as it is possible to be. Perhaps it could have been done cheaper, but then it may have needed more repairs after 5 or 6 years. To me this is a false economy and then questions start to be asked about reliability. I don't believe it did a full stint when it was first restored. A certain large, red, Pacific also illustrates this well - with lengthy spells out of traffic where it isn't earning and any money previously earnt being spent on patching it up, rather than being saved for the next overhaul.
     
  3. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    No, but locomotives were not replaced for fun, but because the cost of ownership became so great it was more economical to replace with new.
     
  4. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    While that is true from a commercial point of view, i.e. you're using the things to generate a profit from their operation, the same does not apply to a preservation project, where you are using the things for pleasure / nostalgia / historical interest. You aren't going to make a profit but will need to subsidise the running costs. The difference basically is how big that subsidy will be.
     
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  5. D1039

    D1039 Part of the furniture

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    1979 to 1986 - out of 49 years in preservation!
     
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  6. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

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    There were a number of locomotives that had a very long working life, 50 to 60 years +, often freight engines which would not have had an easy life either. Granted these were exceptions not the norm, however they fulfilled a niche and were not economical to replace - so they were overhauled and kept going.
    This is still happening, look at the class 37s today! Still bring overhauled for mainline service. They are useful, can go anywhere and are pretty bullet proof.
    Although we are very quick to discard and replace in this country, there are electric units being scrapped at the moment which are not even 20 years old. That is not the norm in other countries.

    However I predict that we will still be seeing Class 66 locos operating in 2040/50..! They are 1980s technology - but again are robust, reliable and can be easily maintained.

    Machines all have components that can be replaced, that is why they will all outlast their owners! And the simpler the machine the easier it is to maintain - there is no fancy software or electronics on a steam engine.
     
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  7. Charles Parry

    Charles Parry Member

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    Indeed, I was stood on Crewe platform just the other dday and two 37s rolled in top and tailing a network rail inspection train, and I'm not normally a diesel guy but given that they started putting these out whilst they were still building 9Fs it was quite a lovely site.
     
  8. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    546871CE-8C55-4A7E-8221-B84B2B5DF821.jpeg Something rugged, not fancy, pretty bulletproof and not economical to replace… Ladies and Gents I give you the EE Type 1!
    I know we go on about certain loco’s being built like Tanks… There’s several reasons why several went abroad a few years ago!
     
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  9. Paul Grant

    Paul Grant Member

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    Depends on the tank though. For both statements!
     
  10. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Even more important - however - will be the source of that subsidy and its availability will define the success of the fund-raising effort.
     
  11. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Deleted
     
  12. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    How do I put this Paul, Isn’t the Chopper at Bo’ness a bit of a cut and shut between 20 an 80?
    Im not in work in now until Tuesday so Im that sad I’ll have a look!
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2022
  13. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    True, but that cuts both ways, for overhaul and new build, and after ten years for overhaul of said new build.
     
  14. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Agreed - as was noted with the preservation of D7017. Once that was secured (by public appeal) the D+EPG had difficulty in persuading donors that funding needed to continue in order to both restore and maintain the locomotive for future operations. Whilst monies were earned by operating trains these covered running costs but left little to build up a reserve for both future overhauls let alone failures of items such as transmissions or engines. In the recent Train Truckers episode on the transfer of Sir Nigel Gresley to the SVR it was noted that the £1.3 million that was spent would have been much greater had voluntary effort been charged at normal rates - and that sum has to be found every 10 years !
     
  15. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of eye watering figures quoted here regarding overhauls costing well north of £1m for some locos. It is though dangerous to generalise and there are locos in the cl4-5 power bracket (ie the useful ones) which are still being made fit for a further 10 years service at little more than £400k + volunteer labour, a lot less than any new build.

    Each has to be looked at on its merits both in terms of condition, practical volunteer support and funding both from steaming fees and other income. One factor which will be of greater significance is the effect of inflation on accumulated funds. For single loco owning groups that means that money earned at year 1 of a new 10 year cycle will have "rotted" to a fraction of its value by year 10. There are ways of advance buying of some items but really there needs to me more owning group amalgamations so that earnings are spent shortly after being received across a small fleet.
     
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  16. Paul Grant

    Paul Grant Member

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    Oh I was being fully glib and thinking more along the lines of the Patton tanks still in service! Not sure 20020 is an actual tank though but its a solid, consistent worker.
     
  17. D1039

    D1039 Part of the furniture

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    Nitpicking, the last 9F entered service in March and the first 37 appeared in November 1960, but your point still stands
     
  18. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I know which one the taxpayer got it’s moneys worth from.
    Matt (totally not biased towards EE type 3’s at all) ;)
     
  19. Robin

    Robin Well-Known Member Friend

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    The 4930 launch event is on Friday 9 September. The loco moves L/E from Bridgnorth to Kidderminster for the ceremony, then does two round trips to Bridgnorth and back with the GWR set (private charter, not public service).

    Details available in the day's traffic notice and WTT on the SVR-Live operations page.

    https://www.svrlive.com/operations
     
  20. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

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    I see SVR have started referring 70 as 34027 again in there roster/timetable pages on there website, has it had the Elizabeth II plates removed?
    What will it look like for the gala later this week
     

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