Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Anthony Coulls, Jun 22, 2014.
This is a sad but true potential.
We are exploring all options.
This post saddens me. The TripAdvisor “review” was ill advised and beneath its author; I hope she repents of her actions and removes it.
However, the TVR’s circling of the wagons depresses me more. The best disinfectant is sunlight; better by far to show the quality of what is being done to demonstrate that history is being left behind. Instead, I see a cycle of denial and blame being perpetuated, which can do no good to the railway.
As in the aftermath of some divorces I’ve seen, it feels that neither of the parties here are able to move on, and are instead focused on their former partner. Both would do well to forgo their histories, and instead focus on other matters.
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I personally resent this comment with all respect.
I would advise/suggest that a review of previous pages.
I have several times not blamed any indevidual for what has happened. Nor does the railway hold any one person accountable.
I have posted several times even calling out the individual to draw a line in the sand and end the fiasco.
We want nothing more than a mutual split from previous ties with no negative overhangs or ties.
Sorry but that is absolute rubbish.
We are not a mouthpiece for either party to take pop shots at each other, it’s ironic you complain about a level playing field, especially considering my questioning of the aforementioned review, how is that not discussing both sides exactly?
Please remember that we are independent of the TVR or their opponents (if you wish to call them that). A personal comment would be that by not engaging, you are playing right into the opponents hands, meaning we end up with one side of the story and the reluctance to engage doesn’t do you any favours.
You may find it hard to believe, but the vast majority here are interested in hearing about the rebuilding of the railway and not the politics. That doesn’t mean that everything is always rosy here, but that’s human nature. It’s a shame you cannot provide simple progress updates such as other railways do. I’m sure even if you went down the legal route, mentioning for example some tracklaying or an update on Alan George’s overhaul would have no bearing on that and the reluctance to do so may actually mean less support is forthcoming from our members - cutting off your nose to spite your face springs to mind.
It’s also ironic considering how friendly you all were on my visits there, I saw a small team battling against the odds, rebuilding the railway including a visit to the sheds to see some of the behind the scenes efforts to return the railway to former glory, something that caught my interest as it would many members here. Ignoring the right or wrongs of the situation, it’s sad to see one individual causes you to deny that opportunity to the Nat pres members, who are at the end of the day railway enthusiasts who wish you every success.
I will not be drawn into a public discussion about the inner workings of National Preservation on this thread. You are welcome to send me a message and I’ll happily discuss it with you.
Paul is right though, you may not accept it but that’s how it looks to the outside world. Even when we support you there seems to be a us vs everyone else attitude. Several of us have suggested some progress updates but it’s seems that is impossible….
I was not implying the Nat pres is a mouthpiece for either side nor have I ever said that. What I was referring to is that no matter what positive posts we put in here an individual is allowed time and time again to “take pop shots” as you put it.
Specifically I was referring to code of conduct. The other individual on several occasions has named individuals within our organisation. You seem to have taken this directly aimed at yourself? Which it is not.
As stated “simple updates” are provided via Facebook and our webpage.
I totally agree that by not engaging , deprives actual supporters from seeing progress. But unfortunately as stated if I’m going to come here to post on progress it’s demoralising when we get the backlash/negativity. Anyone who volunteers knows how that feels.
When I get some time I may message you for advice on how it works and what the scope of rules/code of conduct and such as i am interested.
As stated I will answer direct questions if deemed relevant and appropriate.
I have read this thread, and am aware of what has been said about the underlying issues; I stand by my observations as an outsider who has never visited and has never knowingly met the individuals involved.
But it takes two to tango, and this reaction to criticism is part of that tango. Ignoring the bitterness, there have been substantive comments made that do suggest underlying issues about the management of the railway.
Finally, and about TripAdvisor specifically, if I were looking at reviews I would ignore a 1 star outlier like that. Extreme reviews are rarely much use to me as a potential customer, while one written in those tones always says more about the author than the subject.
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Ditto. Ever think some horror movies tell you more about the mind of the writer than the subject matter in hand?
Mind you, I've also noticed pleas for a modicum of restraint from warring parties (on any thread) generally goes unheeded.
I do keep popping back to this thread, every time a new post is indicated. Odds are that sooner or later there'll actually be some update on the physical railway, however hopelessly optimistic that is!
Well, either that or it will close due to not doing the accounts. Sort out that side of things and one of the major lines of criticism goes away immediately.
I wish the TVR no ill, I have visited once (30 years ago) and it was a pleasant enough trundle through the woods, but I don’t see anything here which would encourage me to visit again, if I’m honest. And the general defensiveness and lack of engagement or progress reports from the volunteers there is a big part of why.
Criticising them over using the word ‘steam’ despite having both steam locos out of service does feel a bit harsh though. Does anyone complain about Ullswater Steamers running a fleet of diesel boats?
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From the point of view of one who has 20 years' experience of working at a tourist attraction - visitors to a heritage railway expect to see steam engines and express vigorous complaint if they don't. Long Board meetings were spent debating how many days we could run steam and how many diesel days we could get away with. It depended on the state of the engines concerned, the availability of coal supplies and the state of health of the qualified drivers, who were all elderly. Given the TVR isn't in a conspicuous position, isn't particularly wellknown and doesn't like criticism, it could save itself some awkward moments by making it clear there aren't any steam engines.
Times have changed. It seems that many of the general public don't really care about steam locomotives. They come for a fun train ride, and what is on the front apparently matters little. Parents, 30 years ago, would remember steam trains in use by the NCB. Parents now might be 90's kids, born after the miners strike, after most mines had shut down, and after the NCB had switched to diesel. Many people just don't have the connection to steam that people did a few decades ago.
Anyway, the more people who turn up and ride the train as it is today, the better chance there is of Alan George and Sgt Murphy coming back.
On the Trip Advisor point, I see that there have been only three posts in 2022 and the few from 2021 seem generally positive but with a detailed negative comment about the neglected state of the place at the time. It seems to have come from someone who knows the set up and what is available in the area suggesting that with limited other attractions it could offer so much. Criticism - yes, but constructive criticism that you ignore at your peril.
Far less constructive is the most recent comment by someone who it looks as though is the same person who graces this thread from time to time. I really don't see what on earth is gained by posting such a comment as the one that appears on TA - a far more public site than this one. If this is what someone who allegedly supports the line has to say then I'd not want to read anything from its detractors!
Thanks Ross. I accept that times have changed and my memories of the importance of specifying steam days on the leaflet are just that. Nobody is going to threaten action under the Trades Description Act and there was no need for the overreaction by TVR volunteer. Unfortunately steam railways will soon be even rarer so it will be important not to falsely claim to be one.
On another subject entirely, many grants were obtained in the past for development of nature trails alongside the tracks and management of the woodlands. The trails had to be closed when the new management took over because of the dangerous wreckage left by Dearing's chaotic timber felling. After 7 years, is there any mention of plans to reopen access to the trails?
Am I reading the same thread?
Over reaction by myself? You really are delusional.I admit I reacted but talking about an over reaction?
You submitted a negative review based on the possibility that someone might be disappointed that we don’t have steam engine in service because one of our websites has the word steam in it?!!
In the 8 years I have been here, not once have I heard a negative about expecting steam. We do get asked about the steam engines but as rightly stated the generational interest has sadly gone.
Not one person here has remotely agreed the post is justified in trip advisor!
Let it go! Call a quits?! You are not involved nor represent the railway in anyway. We aprreciate you was involved once upon a time. But we now have a new volounteer set and management who are successfully rebuilding the railway. Surely you would be happy instead of bitter?
Call it a day , draw a line in the sand and enjoy the railway running and rebuilding. I’m publicly asking you to call it a day with the negativity.
on a personal note it must be aweful living day to day waiting for any negatives to throw at us. Please just enjoy the railway and it’s progress. Life is far too short.
note: no names have been mentioned.
Neither Elizabeth Perry nor TVR Volunteer are doing themselves or their beloved railway any favours with this "discussion".
They need to stop jumping for the keyboard and move on. Whatever they think may or may not have happened in the past, it doesn't help anyone to have such a public slanging match.
I am asking for this?
No more history - no more tit for tat….
I do find the continued lack of detailed accounts and the ongoing failure to submit legally required documentation on time very concerning. These may be nothing to do with the actual running of the railway or the stout work that the volunteers are doing but, as I understand there are concerns about the standard of management, the first would allow others to see if finances were being managed 'properly' (for want of a better word) while the second would prevent the now regular threats to close down the company and therefore the railway as a whole.
every time the railway gets listed to be struck off for non filing of accounts , the past rears its head . Someone involved with the railway needs to get its house in order otherwise you put a great big target on your chest and shout fire .
it is there in black and white on the companies house website . This is not a trivial thing and the very future of the railway hinges on the timely submission of documents the railway is legally obliged to do so . We can argue all day about the approach of Miss Perry but keeping giving your detractors ammunition is like inviting what comes back with interest
Worth also pointing out that the ORR is looking for evidence of operators competence - or otherwise in general rather than specifically safety management issues so if you are not filing accounts on time that suggests other things might not be right as well
One thing that any visitor attraction should strive to avoid is to have customers turn up, find that what has been advertised is not available, and depart, never to be seen again. That will happen sometimes for all sorts of reasons, some of them unavoidable, but I do agree with Elizabeth that calling the business a steam railway when there is no possibility of steam operation is asking for trouble. How hard is it to explain the situation in their publicity?
She is also right to flag up the repeated delays in submitting accounts. That is either simple incompetence, which as pointed out in post #839 casts doubt on the management's competence in other aspects of the business, or deliberate. Now, why would any board not want their accounts to be seen?
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