If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

The City of York. Wednesday 3rd April.

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by RalphW, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. brasso1

    brasso1 New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ive been very wary of WCR for some years. I am aware of the poor reputation they have within the industry. I am very disappointed in the decline of DB for charter work in part due to WCR's ability to undercut DB for charter work based on their rapid expansion of other Ad-hoc traincrew provision (example, OTM piloting) assisted by their drivers working to terrible/non existent conditions.

    Their contingency plan seems to have fallen well short of what was required. As in my earlier post....


    What was WCRs contingency plan in the event of mechanical failure out on the mainline?

    Given that...

    The nearest available vacuum braked diesel loco was Carnforth.
     
  2. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    The basics of professional diligence involve assessing the foreseeable risks and taking reasonable precautions to manage them accordingly. None of which requires hindsight.
    We are all thankful to wcr in many respects but they should do better more often.
     
  3. phil.sez

    phil.sez Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    57
    Cheers Shep, i believe you had a interesting day.
     
  4. Alberta 45562

    Alberta 45562 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    4,890
    Likes Received:
    560
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Train Simulator Developer
    Location:
    Cudworth,Barnsley
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    What I don't understand in this situation is the fact that 37516 tagged on ECS to York for the Wansbeck last Friday,seemingly played no real part in the main stock moves(?) and then apparently headed back to Carnforth light engine on Monday?
     
  5. brasso1

    brasso1 New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    7
    I am not suggesting hindsight.

    When assessing the foreseeable risks I would have thought that the risk of running a vac braked train 130 miles from the nearest available vac braked locomotive would have flagged as potentially serious. The fact is they put nothing in place to guard against that risk.

    Had the train continued on from York and failed mechanically between York and Leeds they really would have screwed the job up.
     
  6. royals pete

    royals pete Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Woodley nr Reading
    Its really not a case of 'old chestnut', its a serious consideration; and i certainly don't want to start a war of words which we have seen on here so many times. if I was delayed 4 hrs on the train, possibly with kids, what would I feel. I find it really sad that this has happened, we all on here look towards happy and successful steam charters, but on a railway system which is so packed on main lines, risks have to be minimal. Whats the answer, Buseng ( we live closeby , so keep it clean !!) lol. Incidentally, maybe someone has an idea; were they not intending to put spark arrestors on all main line steam ?? Really don't know the position there. Pete
     
  7. Shep Woolley

    Shep Woolley Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    7,575
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Having been a passenger on yesterday's charter I would be most grateful if you could expand on your expression 'a load of normals' having their day spoilt.
     
  8. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,796
    Likes Received:
    2,147
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chester le Street County Durham
    Normal people looking for a day out, not cranks, who become used to this type of ever increasing farce.

    Its the market that Compass look to tap into, from memory it seems a bit of a closed shop as to what motive power is available to them.

    That said, think they deserve better service in this instance.
     
  9. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    19,513
    Likes Received:
    18,670
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The unavailability of back up across the system must be a problem for a set up like WCR. And if you take it with you, that may overload the train with all the attendant issues that this may bring...and the extra cost, I guess. Then you have the matter of a company that has its own steam services/charters and hires out its fleet to others such as Compass and the RTC. That's good business sense but if NR's monitoring of incidents like this one leads them to the conclusion that the risks are too great, the whole enterprise could be affected including the normal summer business out of Fort William. This is definitely not an easy way of making money!
     
  10. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,542
    Likes Received:
    7,725
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Tobacco manufacturing
    Location:
    Kendal
    Thanks Shep , a bit of nifty packing away and speedy driving mind you the 8f stopped longer at Long Preston than I thought so that was a bonus. Hope you had a good day out even with the problems. Steve
     
  11. D5177_55A

    D5177_55A New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    34
    I thought that Network Rail (or Railtrack/BR) has always insisted on spark arrestors in all steam locos passed for the mainline, despite the ‘drop’ in performance?
     
  12. Alberta 45562

    Alberta 45562 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    4,890
    Likes Received:
    560
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Train Simulator Developer
    Location:
    Cudworth,Barnsley
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
  13. 46236

    46236 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    248
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    lord of the manor
    Location:
    city of gold
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    hardly an Australian type firestorm, much ado about nothing I think!!!!!
     
  14. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,824
    Likes Received:
    2,720
    Location:
    Switzshire
    Pano of the 8F passing the RSPB nature reserve, LINK.

    (two shots merged in P/shop)
     
  15. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    7,627
    Likes Received:
    1,516
    Occupation:
    semi-retired, currently doing R&D for my patents
    Location:
    Halifax
    No Roast Duck on the menu then?.......
     
  16. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    9,110
    Likes Received:
    6,983
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    The cold wet weather has lulled us all into a false sense of security around the dry conditions with a lot of dead vegitation from last year still lying and no spring growth yet. Look at Scotland and around Fort William . GB6 will be adding more grey hairs to Nigel at present unless we have Rain !

    Each year we have lineside fires, 60009 has done so in the past , and there are others so pointing the finger just at the 8F is a little unfair . Some sunshine , a strong Easterly would have dried things out . It's the plan that was in place to manage times of higher fire risk that needs to be considered both from WCRC and a Network Rail perspective
     
  17. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    There has to be a case for saying if you want a vac braked train it needs to run in close proximity to vac braked rescue in the future even if that means shorter railtours or restricted routes. Russian Roulette on the mainline will have a finite life before it either gets shut down or too expensive in claims.

    48151 seems to have several times history in raising fire outside the box, Eskmeals viaduct is but one memorable occasion.

    Dumping everyone on the platform in York, with a somewhat unknown delay and no idea what to do whilst waiting must have been highly enjoyable all round, not least for East Coasts passengers who probably had to share the waiting room with the stranded hundreds.
    Sending for the 37 may have been cost effective for the operator, but the correct thing to have done would have been to have tickets for people to make their own way home.

    This all sounds like one of those scary charter holiday promoters that fly you to the sun, but their airline supplier goes belly up, everyone sits at the airport and as such put you on a boat home... of course Holiday makers have ABTA to fall back on. For once, I find myself agreeing with a certain someone who used to frequent these rooms and suggested such rescue nets.

    There was an 18.40 from York that could have seen everyone back in Crewe by 21.00, not 01.00... all it needs would be an ABTA style agreement for passenger operators to aid each other out, maybe as a condition to raising the £5000 delay minutes penalty cap, this clause could be added to it.
     
  18. Stephensons_Ghost

    Stephensons_Ghost New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    2
    Perhaps more relevant to other threads but the pictures from the fires in Fort William would have to be a risk for the GB6 and Jacobite unless the weather changes. Some growth is needed which probably means warmer temperatures and some rain. Could be a difficult time in April on the west side of the UK otherwise with this horrible cold winds from the east.

    SG
     
  19. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,671
    Likes Received:
    818
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    18.40 York - Liverpool TPE, need a shoe horn to get every one on that! Joking apart, there are three York- Manchester services in quick succession, including the 18.40, so something could have been sorted.
    Also, if I was stuck on York station then I would be in the York tap, not a waiting room.
     
  20. Alberta 45562

    Alberta 45562 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    4,890
    Likes Received:
    560
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Train Simulator Developer
    Location:
    Cudworth,Barnsley
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Looking at forecasts the only areas to get 100% (average) and above rainfall for April are the Highlands in the North West,everywhere else is down to 60-80% of normall rainfall. May is looking like a washout though....everywhere.
     

Share This Page