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The Duchess to Carlisle: VT - 12/03/22

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by CALEDONIA, Mar 8, 2022.

  1. Will RL

    Will RL Member

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    Due to operational constraints the diesel will run round at Hellifield and join us for the run. Again at Crewe it will run round and pilot us back to Tyseley.

    With load 9+diesel there is absolutely no reason for the diesel to do anything more than take us to Hellifield in the morning, shunt at Carlisle and take us back from Crewe.

    There was every intention to run this without a diesel.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2022
  2. steamvideosnet

    steamvideosnet Well-Known Member

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    TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE, I DEMAND MY MONEY BACK AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
     
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  3. bleeder4

    bleeder4 Member

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    There are 4 charters in and around Carlisle tomorrow, so I imagine it was just too busy to support the planned movements. There's the VT S&C trip, the CCE, the URT S&C trip, and a Statesman trip that stops there en-route to Ft William.
     
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  4. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Two things: When did VT know about this and why weren't passengers either offered a refund for patently not providing what you advertised; or why wasn't the train postponed Will?

    I bet you many of the passengers like us only booked for 6233 sans Diesel. We've done the 'absolutely no reason for the diesel to do anything' before with you and got shoved because no-one can control what the diesel driver does. Our friends have booked a Premier Inn for 2 nights and had their dogs put in kennels just to do the Duchess over the S&C on a proper train. And please don't insult us with it is a proper steam hauled train - it might be if we're lucky.
     
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  5. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture

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    The only crumb of comfort I can see is nine coaches would of been far too light for Duchess anyway and at least you get the run back to Crewe. The proof will be in the pudding come Saturday. Still disappointing but no real shock.
     
  6. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    That's almost certainly the problem. I'm also prepared to bet that when Network Rail finally got to the finer detail of how to manage things at Carlisle it all became too complicated without running the risk of delaying service trains.

    It's worth bearing in mind that West Coast knows the wrinkles at Carlisle as they've done it all umpteen times before. Yet even so they often have to move pretty sharpish when the Big Railway does what it does on the day.

    So this looks like a collision of many (predictable) complications, sadly.
     
  7. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    True but it would have been fun on the return to see if 6233+9 could have got close to No.9+8 on the 16th November 1991's Streamline Express, a sort of positioning train with a reduced load in the leaf fall season. On that day we flew past Ais Gill Summit at just under 60 mph - we had to opt for 59, in 19m 45s or thereabouts.
     
  8. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    Blimey - some people really know how to enjoy a thouougherly bad time:eek:. Just as well that most of your fellow passengers will have a good day out regardless and are happy for the train to run as scheduled. Why should their day be spoiled because you are not happy?

    @1020 Shireman, I think you need to find a different hobby mate - this one only seems to cause you anxiety and grief;).

    Peter
     
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  9. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Not anxiety and grief just a disappointment in Vintage Trains again. This was the train that Michael Whitehouse, the Chairman, told us on the 20th November 2021, Lickey Day, on Worcester Shrub Hill Station, would definitely - do you know the meaning of the word? - run without a diesel, provided of course the Duchess was fit to run. Hence the advertising and the good faith shown by us booking the train. And you have no idea how many fellow passengers will have a good day out and are happy for the train to run as scheduled.

    Enjoyed this hobby for more than 36 years to date and in all 928 tours sadly Vintage Trains have let us down more than any other organisation. And please do not call me mate. Don't know you at all.
     
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  10. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

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    To say this is disappointing is an understatement. Already arrived in Brum, so 2x nights B&B, return fare to Brum as well as the cost of the tour itself looking like a waste of money.

    Any hope that the 47 driver will leave absolutely well alone, unless Duchess really can't handle the train on its own? I see Clun Castle needed help last week. Not much, but it makes all the diffefence, to some of us at least.

    Yes, maybe I too need a new hobby. I actually quite like diesels, enjoyed timing the 68 up to Moor Street this afternoon. But not on the back of a steam train. I"d rather spend my money and go and watch Bristol City. In fact, I'd even rather watch Bristol Rovers...
     
  11. Sam 60103

    Sam 60103 Member

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    My first ever steam experience on the S&C last summer with Tornado on the Viking Venturer last summer which was if my memory serves me right intended to run unassisted but ended up having the diesel on the back. Tornado’s performance was fantastic and the diesel had little impact. I’ve got no problems with diesels on the rear provided they don’t interfere too much. My message to all the “purists” is be grateful we have steam over 50 years after the end of active steam. If you want unassisted steam an SRPS Forth Circle isn’t a bad idea in my opinion.
     
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  12. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    I really do despair at the forum and its members at times , me me me , I don't want a Diesel, so and so promised me four months before the tour ran. I mean how is anyone supposed to know what will happen in four months time !! , postpone now to the detriment of the other 300+ passengers . It really is quite laughable and a short break in Kiev is recommended to give a few perspective on life .

    If I were a railtour operator i'd just take the diesel full stop , and stop pandering to enthusiasts who lets be honest are not the core customer anymore .

    For context I stopped railtouring years ago because the operational restrictions that were in place and the mind numbing length of the day out, along with watering in loops had removed any enjoyment and the increasing costs made it out of my pocket . No ill feeling towards any tour operator
     
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  13. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    here's a thought for you . Maybe prclt would prefer not to have 6233 put to it on the S&C to beat a notional record , maybe the other passengers would like to enjoy the unfolding views of the S&C at a slightly more sedate pace than we whisked along it at line speed. Next you will be telling us VT promised you Duchess of Abercorn performance levels
     
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  14. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

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    I just wish the tour operators would be more open and transparent re their operating plans. I did suggest this to RTC in the past, but they just weren't interested, and I gave up booking with them as a result.

    I am happy to accept that Vintage Trains intended this to be an unassisted train (from Hellifield), and they have been far more transparent than most in outlining their operating plans.

    I have booked steam tours through RTC, VT and Pathfinder knowing there would be a diesel involved, including VT to Minehead, when a 47 was deemed necessary to give a shove up Old Hill bank, for a load that 5043 had been the master of on numerous previous occasions.

    And yes some of the best feats of steam loco enginemanship have involved diesels in the mix, but not assisting. Tornado to Yarmouth and out of Tenby. Even a certain other Duchess over Shap spring to mind.

    OK, time to calm down and have another pint, and let's see what actually happens tomorrow.
     
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  15. Jamie C. Steel

    Jamie C. Steel Member

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    Clun had a small amount of assistance to leave Tyseley yard, yards are renowned for slippery rails and the location itself has a gradient of about 1 in 38. New Street was a small shove to get the loco moving from the station. After that nothing was provided, fact.
     
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  16. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

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    Some like their own version of facts I'm afraid Jamie as it suits their agenda. Those of us who were there know the reality and what a great day it was.
    Think I will take a break from this forum for a bit, doing nothing for my blood pressure and I may type something I later regret - best of luck tomorrow.
     
  17. dublo6231

    dublo6231 Member

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    I think what should be accepted is that "everyone" is entitled to their "own" personal opinion; and is entitled to express it (illlegal/criminal statements withstanding).
    Funnily enough in this crazy world - a personal opinion is actually still allowed and also it is worth remembering that "You" are allowed to disagree and have your own...

    What "should" happen however is that we maintain "a mutual respect" for that person even if you "disagree" with what they say.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2022
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  18. steamvideosnet

    steamvideosnet Well-Known Member

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    Have I ever told you the definition of insanity? It’s repeating yourself over and over again and expecting a different result.
    Have I ever told you...

    Get a grip people and get on the bloody train. To quote one of my favourite comedians, we’re all going to die soon and there is no sequel. Enjoy it while it lasts.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2022
  19. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Just following up my own comment with an afterthought.

    When the original bid went to Network Rail (three months back?) every movement would have been shown to include all the associated plans for the train at Carlisle and whatever the diesel would do. Network Rail then dealt with the pathing if it hadn't already been given to them in the bid. So no surprises.

    By the look of it Vintage found out (maybe in the past 24/48 hours) that things would not be possible as intended. If true that's hard for Vintage to do anything about irrespective of what may have been said back in time.

    I've lost count of the number of times that Network Rail has managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The one that comes to mind is a freight that sat in Carlisle and prevented a Tornado S&C trip from picking up passengers resulting in a late departure behind the Leeds service and everything that followed on including an arrival back in London at nearly 1 am.

    I hope tomorrow goes as well as can be expected. I would also be fairly optimistic that someone in Vintage will explain what went wrong. Unless they have changed their attitude to their customers my experience has been that they are generally open. As I said this looks like a Network Rail intervention and we have to accept that if they can get the train in and out of Carlisle in the requested slot then that is all they care about.
     
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  20. Shep Woolley

    Shep Woolley Well-Known Member Friend

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    Would it not be possible just for once to stop moaning and groaning about diesels on the back and just be grateful in this day and age to still have steam on the mainline.
     

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