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The Easterling 28/08/17 UKRT/A1ST 60163

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Paul42, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    From the UKR website : -

    London King's Cross 09.03 CONFIRMED 21:18 CONFIRMED
    Potters Bar (for M25) 09.28 CONFIRMED 20.51 CONFIRMED
    Stevenage 09.51 CONFIRMED 20.26 CONFIRMED
     
  2. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    So, the customary slow-line paths to/ from Hitchin, by the looks of it tailing 2T08 most-stations KGX-Cambridge North in the morning and an all-stations WGC-Moorgate service in the evening. This has always seemed to me to be an outing that is all about traversing an interesting route and visiting an interesting destination rather than one which holds out any great prospect of exciting locomotive performance. That is exactly what the UKRT tour description - positioning this trip as a Bank Holiday day out at the seaside - suggests to me, so no misapprehensions about that, just expectations of a relaxed, leisurely, undemanding schedule throughout, and performance to match, with Tornado gently weaving in and out of the traffic.

    That said, I hope that in due course I am proved wrong. There is, after all, a 40 mile stretch between Lakenheath and Trowse Junction that is available for more-or-less unrestricted 75 mph running. But I suspect that we will need to wait until 16th September for the next demonstration of what Tornado is really capable of in the performance stakes.
     
  3. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    And all the better for it- it doesn't have to be full regulator every time. Also, I suspect that if stopping at Potter's Bar, then it's the slow line from Stevenage in the main. However, as you say, it's doing exactly what's said on the tin.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
  4. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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  5. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Anyone know if the whole train is being turned? Only seems to be one move from P2 to Norwich and back during the layover and that looks like a diesel tow. Fits with what I was told about a diesel being on the rear of the train all day. Haven't got a current Track Plan of the area and as I've never been there, got no idea what the operating procedures are likely to be.
     
  6. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    At first glance, I thought your post read "...move the P2 to Norwich..." and I thought, "Wow, they've been getting on much faster with the Gresley 2-8-2 than I had realised! :)
     
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  7. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    From what I can gather, whatever's leaving Great Yarmouth is going to take the Wensum Curve to Trowse Swing Bridge, but it looks as though it has to reverse to Trowse Jc to presumably await clearance to move onto the Down line, at which point it returns to the bridge before reversing all the way to Thorpe and the train care depot. Then it runs all the way back to Great Yarmouth in reverse order.
     
  8. alastair

    alastair Well-Known Member

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    Possibly the stock will remain in P2 at G Yarmouth (there are no other trains booked in or out of P2 during that time). The G Yarmouth/Norwich moves are timed at 45mph which could be Tornado running tender first with support coach?
     
  9. D432

    D432 New Member

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    60163 & POB detaches on arrival and class 66 on rear is set shunts set into platform 4 where it stables, class 66 detaches and shunts on to the rear of the POB and takes it to Norwich to service Tornado on the return movements happens in reverse.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Given that UKRT likes a big train, if Tornado has, say, 11 coaches, add the POB and then add a Class 66 - that's 16 equivalent. Whilst we know that DBC does not permit rear end assistance of steam, that really is quite a lump for Tornado to lug around. Lucky, in a way that after Finsbury Park the gradients are relatively easy.
     
  11. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    It seems likely that this trip will be Tornado plus POB plus 12 + a dead Class 66. That's 17 equivalent - probably one of the heaviest loads to be taken out of KGX since I don't know when.

    So whilst the day is not one where we will be rushing around, it will be interesting to see how Tornado and its crews handle quite a load.
     
  12. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

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    If a class 66 weighs 129 tons then that's equivalent to 4 Mk2s or Mk1s on B4 bogies, which are 32/33 tons. So equivalent to load 16.

    Whilst DBC generally don't like shoveage there was plenty of rear end assistance on the borders line trains up to Falahill.

    How sure can we be that the 66 won't be assisting, even if just in notch 1 or whatever?
     
  13. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    12 coaches plus a POB plus a Class 66 makes 17 in my book, not 16. And on a point of detail, eight miles of 1 in 200 up to Potters Bar is definitely not the same as eight miles of 1 in 70 up to Falahill even if Tornado had three less coaches when it did it! As for diesel assistance, I have been told that DBC operational rules do not permit rear assistance except for prior agreed permissions - e.g. Grosvenor Bridge. But we shall see.
     
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  14. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    With consummate ease I would think.
     
  15. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    Looking forward to seeing the back of Stevenage for a while- three times in one month can't be healthy! I may yet change my plan and carry on to KGX in the morning to see what happens during the climb. Will be bailing out at Stevenage in the evening as planned. Overall, looking forward to it- and a couple of pints of Lacon's...
     
  16. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

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    From previous posts I wasn't sure if its 11 or 12 plus the POB. So if its 12 plus a POB plus a 66 then that's going to be around 600 tons tare. Wartime load.

    IIRC the heaviest steam trains I have yet timed were 35028 + 13 + ETHEL on the Ynys Mon Express 01/12/1990 and 70000 Britannia + 12 + 67 from Waterloo to Salisbury 23/11/2013 which was unassisted. Both around 530 tons tare?
     
  17. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

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    I can't see the A1SLT sanctioning the A1 to pull the whole load. Be nice to be proven wrong.
     
  18. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Well, he said optimistically, be prepared to be wrong. Try some maths on the British Pullman plus a Class 67 up Gomshall and then tell me that it's not possible. But as I said, we shall see.
     
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  19. alastair

    alastair Well-Known Member

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    But surely, as DBC don't "do" shovage, there is no alternative other than the 67 going on the front inside? :eek:
     
  20. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    In addition to the interest focusing on the initial 1 in 200 climb in the down direction to Potters Bar, a glance at the gradient charts suggests that there are three other shorter but steeper sections on the return that may be equally taxing for this sort of load. The first three miles of the four mile climb to Ketteringham Summit at MP116 is graded at 1 in 129 for two miles (to Hethersett) then 1 in 101 for a further mile before a final mile of shorter more moderate rises. Then on either side of Royston, where a 12-minute stop is scheduled, there is a steady climb westbound from Meldreth for around three miles at 1 in 100/ 120/ 175 prior to the station stop. And then immediately on the restart, Tornado's crew will face a three-and-a-half mile climb to Ashwell commencing with a 1 mile section at 1 in 163, and then after an easing, a further one mile section at 1 in 183.

    So this time around it may be more about "load" than "speed", but still plenty of potential interest to be had in the detail of the performance on the day.
     

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