The Flagships of Railways

Hay there, me again...! I watched a program about welsh steam and the Llangollen railway recently, and one of the people they interviewed at one point described 7822 Foxcote Manor as the flagship of the railway.

I agree with the man's statement, but it made me think about that subject, and I thought it would be interesting to discuss.

So which engine do you think is the flagship of their respective railways?

Do you perhaps think there are multiple candidates?

Are their engines you think should be regarded as the flagship, if so, why?

What does make an engine a flagship of their railway...?

Let the discussion and debating commence...!

 

Flagship locos are generally the first loco for the group (4866 for GWS) or a loco thats a big coup for them (828 for Strathspey). Either way, the flagship loco is a loco that would be immediately identified and connected to that group/ line.

 

Starting with the bluebell, there are definitely a few contender :
- Stepney
- Fenchurch
- Blackmoor Vale
- Sir Archie
- U boat
- Any of the P's
and maybe more. In my opinion, its got to be Stepney being arguably their most famous engine and the single engine that gets ALL kids excited to see.

 

B12 for the NNR

 

Really, and with no disrespect to the history and significance of the other engines, there are only two contenders - Stepney or Bluebell. It's easy to imagine any of the others you mention being elsewhere or tucked up out of service without a major impact on the image of either the engines or the railway - but it is very hard to imagine either of Stepney or Bluebell being an integral part of someone else's fleet; or of the railway running with neither of those locos available for a long period.

And narrowing it down further: if I had to pick one, I'd say Stepney - that is the one that young children (and their parents!) are always happy to see when they discover it.

In a way the Bluebell is lucky in that it has a core fleet of about 20 engines owned by the railway and most of the others owned by groups that are so closely allied that it is unlikely they will ever disappear. I wonder how other railways that rely on a more transient fleet perceive the issue of a "flagship" - or whether it is even important to them?

Tom

 

It's hard to think of a flagship loco for some lines - e.g. NYMR, SVR, GCR, WSR, KWVR.
Maybe 60007 might qualify as far as the NYMR is concerned? 4930 or 7819 for the SVR?? I wouldn't even like to hazard a guess for three latter three lines. 34092 was the KWVR's main line ambassador, and a brilliant engine, but is this the same as being the flagship?

Perhaps the M7 for Swanage, 3/32670 for the KESR, 5541 for the Dean Forest, 7827 Lydham Manor for the Paignton & Dartmouth (or whatever the line is called now!) and 73050 for the Nene Valley

Then there are flagships that cease to be; 92203 was the East Somerset's flagship when David Shepherd was involved, now it's 5637.
On the Mid Hants, 34016 Bodmin used to be the talked of as the line's flagship, but no longer. Perhaps 35005 Canadian Pacific now??
Certainly 47493 is the current Spa Valley flagship, but when 32650 steams, an LBSCR engine on an LBSCR line may take over the flagship crown here.

I agree about 7822 for Llangollen. I've never been to this line yet, but were I to pay a visit, it would be the engine I would be most pleased to see on the front of the train. I guess this is part of what gives a loco its flagship status.

 

On the SVR, many would say 4930 or 7819, both of which have spent over 20 years out of ticket now, I believe. One could argue that the sterling service provided by 5764 or 46443 - or 48773 or 45110 until recently - would make them all contenders. I've always felt that the SVR's large collection of reasonably sized engines has made the collection as a whole the flagship of the railway, rather than any given loco.

 

For the Isle of Wight Steam Railway it would have to be Calbourne.

It was the original locomotive purchased by the then Wight Locomotive Society and the type was the only one used on the island in the last few years of steam operation so almost anyone old enough to remember steam there remembers the O2 class. For a long time it was also physically the largest loco on the railway too.

 

For the GCR I would probably say 6990 Witherslack Hall (owned by the railway) or 34039 Boscastle (privately owned), this is my personal choice as I associate them with services in the 90's and have fond memories of them both. For some I would imagine their flagship wold be 5305, as an early pioneer and as a modern 'roving' ambassador. For others I would imagine it would be the 04, 63601 just because of it heritage. I suppose if Butler Henderson was reintroduced on a more permanent basis the I'm sure many people would consider this a contender for a flagship.
Discuss!!!!
Cheers
Steve

 

For the Talyllyn: No.2 'Dolgoch'.
For the Strathspey: 5025 (although 828 has been more visible in the last 20 years).

 

I'd say the SVR's flagship loco(s) would definitely be 4930 & 45110 (being the company owned locos) and 46443 as it was the second loco to arrive (our flagship would no doubt be 3205 if it was still based with us).

Fingers crossed Mickey isn't in the engine house for too long & that 5110's planned return from Barrow occurs soon as suspected. That coupled with the overhaul agreement with the friends of hagley hall could mean that we have 2 or 3 of our "flagships" active within the next 5 or so years! Wouldn't that be nice

Cheers,
Andy

 

At the PBR it would be Nora, except she's now trapped behind a fence at Big Pit (until one of us wins the lottery)

PBE Easter Monday Bunnys - aligrieve's Photos

so now it's Mech. Navvies ltd.

PBr 1940s weekend - aligrieve's Photos

 

I think the Valley is quite hard to pick one out. When I was a kid we used to caravan at Highley on our way back to Aberdeenshire from Cornwall. 48773, 75069 and 34027 were all favourites for us. Too many to choose from I think.

 

For the Lakeside & Haverthwaite, the flagship position is shared by the two Fairburn tanks, and obviously, The Earl and Countess at the WLLR. It has to be 46464 at Brechin, an in a sense, you could say that 60009 is a sort of overall flagship for Scottish steam. With a 64B Shedplate on the smokebox and "A4 Haymarket"on the front bufferbeam, its owner. John Cameron, has always been keen to proclaim the loco's Scottish connections.

It is much harder to choose when a line has a large fleet of locos. Although the consensus for the Bluebell seems to be Stepney (with Bluebell as "Vice-flagship", if there is such a term), and I wouldn't wish to argue, what about 80151? Brighton-built, and a loco that actually saw service over the line during the final perod of operaton by BR. It looks so much at home on the Bluebell. Pity its boiler ticket will run out before the East Grinstead extension is complete. It would have been a most appropriate loco for the first public train - just the sort of job you would give to a flagship loco.

An interesting thought - the 80xxx tanks are well represented in preservation; ideal for many preserved lines, and well-liked, but I can't think of any others that would be in serious contention for flagship status.

 

Whenever I think of the NYMR I always think of 80135 because of its green livery, although 63395 or Repton - or even SNG - would probably be better contenders in most people's eyes.

On the GCR - 63601. No question, in my opinion.

 

This can be a (slight) problem with lines which have no railway/society owned steam locos. The CVR had its first ex-BR engine, 4F 44422 as a very appropriate flagship for many years but it was privately owned and has now moved on. The current CVR logo does not therefore include any individual engine, being based around a nameplate shape.

I don't really think we have a flagship at the moment, having used hired engines for many years. The two S160s are popular with us enthusiasts but I don't think they've assumed flagship status (yet) in terms of souvenir shop decoration etc.

 

7827 Lydham Manor on the P&DSR (especially now she is black, and has visited Didcot as a guest loco)
maybe that's my preference, perhaps 4588 is the real flagship?

 

I've always felt 5025 as flagship is a bit unjust as it only worked in Scotland for a short period of time after being completed. 828 is a unique survivor of the class and Dunalastair boiler design. Although both classses are known for time served in the Highlands.

 

Whilst on the Scottish theme, I think on the B&KR it's a toss-up between the Caley 0-4-4 and the D49.

Further south (much further south!) I would suggest that 42765 on the ELR, and the 14xxs at Didcot and Buckfastleigh are probably the flagship locos of the railways and centre in question.

 

73050 on the Nene Valley. One of their first locos and is I think owned by Peterborough City Council so not likely to leave.