Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by LittleRedTrain, Jul 5, 2021.
Having watched the video by L. Marsh - Post 97 - that would be no.
Bahamas is certainly not shy for steam, aided and abetted by competent firemen.
QQ. Who were the crew yesterday.
It was fortunate that there was no rain.
Can’t say with 100% certainty but it looked like it was Andy Taylor and Chris Birmingham all day. They certainly displayed tremendous skill when an unwanted restart on Rattery was needed. Also the minimum of 30 on Dainton eastbound was both a performance and audible delight. Thank you to all involved yesterday for the opportunity to experience 45596 tackling the Devon Banks.
I wonder how much difference the double chimney made compared to a standard Jube.
I was one of the fortunate ones to have a ticket for this train, joining at Taunton where it arrived to a heavy downpour as if somebody had just turned on the tap, and indeed it was raining all the way to Whiteball. We were away on time, and after a slowish start reached 55mph at Wellington and went in to the tunnel at 34½ after (I think) a slip approaching it. An acceleration through the tunnel passed the summit at 39½ and the maximum before slowing for the Tiverton stop was 74½. Fortunately the weather cleared up here and it was sunny and fine after Exeter.
Went well on Dainton, 60 at the bottom and 26½ in to the tunnel, and in fact we were going so well that we caught up the train ahead at Totnes, with a signal stop right at the bottom of Rattery bank. However we got away OK, albeit slowly but managed 10mph by Tigley with subsequent acceleration on the easier upper part of the bank to enter Marley tunnel at 32½ mph.
Somebody asked whether this was the first time a Jubilee had been to Plymouth, but no further as the train was hauled to Par and back by diesel. In my opinion Hemerdon is actually the hardest of the South Devon banks and the diesel was wisely held at Plymouth just in case, though in the event it wasn't needed. As a previous post has mentioned, the minimum on the 1 in 42 was 9 mph and I have to confess to some relief as the rhythm of the exhaust started to quicken when the gradient eased to 1 in 47. And the climb of Dainton was most impressive with a minimum of 30½ mph; for comparison with Tornado last month the time from post 221½ to the tunnel was 4 minutes 13.99 seconds.
The best was saved to last, as after a quick water stop in platform 6 at Exeter a sustained effort reached post 174 at Whiteball in 21 minutes 5.77 seconds for the distance of just under 20 miles. Speeds 41mph at Cowley Bridge, 57½ at Stoke Canon, 73 at Hele, minimum 63 on the 1 in 155 before Tiverton Junction, 69 in the dip afterwards, 67 at Parkway and minimum 55 at the summit.
So congratulations to Bahamas and crew and many thanks to RTC for promoting the tour and West Coast for operating it.
I asked the driver ( didn’t get his name) on the second S&C trip what he thought of it compared with the other two Jubilees. He reckoned if they are a class 6 Bahamas is a 6 1/2
Had a bizarre conversation on the WSR trip around the fact that Bahamas, in his view and based on its performance that day, was not as good as Galatea and that maybe on this particular trip Bahamas was off note.
It was a conversation that had no future so I didn't really bother to engage. For what it's worth I think that this particular Jubilee has power available in a little more depth than Galatea but it's almost invidious to get into comparisons over different examples of the same class.
To my mind they are beautiful looking locomotives, do the job of their power classifications and with a higher permitted speed than, for example a Black 5, are better suited for main line running. They look particularly good in green as well.
Tests done after the fitting of the double chimney back in 1961 suggest that it had the edge over a standard Jubilee at high power output. It’s odd that over the years a total of four Jubilees were fitted with double chimneys at various times, Canada had a Kylchap prewar, but nothing was done to equip the entire class.
According to Ian Allen gradient profile, it was either the 1/47 or 1/50, I was about a mile from Totnes station. Either way it was great recovery further up on the 1/50 and 1/56.
I had a conversation at Hemerdon with local railwayman and enthusiast Bernard Mills. He said it was the first time that a Jubilee had worked over the Devon banks to Plymouth but he had seen a photograph taken in 1963 of a member of the class running light engine eastbound towards Exeter. Presumably, due to a shortage of traction, it had previously been pressed into service to haul a train to Paignton. <BJ>
I know that people like @The Man may simply say that it's what they do but I would imagine that you don't really want to be tested in that kind of way on a busy main line with consequences if things go wrong. And I think it is right that those in their armchairs should recognise, as has been happening on here, the skill needed on both sides of the footplate when the Network throws a curve ball at you.
"A serious check on the lower part of Rattery and Tigley at Follaton which put the Jube at a crawl. This has all the trademarks of a tresspass incident. The HST before was also down to a crawl too. The loco almost came to stand with numerous slips while trying to keep the loco moving, great driving from Andy Taylor, I assume ?
Not sure - but being 4 mins early at Totnes she would have got checked by 1C77 in any event (which didn't pass Aish until 1254)."
12.54 is the booked time at Aish
"I thought that standard practice was not to drop into Totnes until the train had a green on the approach as that would ensure you had an unchecked run at Rattery."
Maybe if they had done that Bahamas would have been RT at Totnes and this stop may not have happened.
"Is it progress that a class 5/6 steam loco hauling 8 coaches over the infamous South Devon banks can catch up with the latest super duper train?"
Silly statement really...The unit working C77 did this on the Sunday.. North Pole TMD, Paddington,Penzance,Paddington, Bristol Parkway then Stoke Gifford TMD, that progress..
1C77 was RT at Newton Abbot, Totnes and Aish and maybe Bahamas times were slack further east so It was running early at Totnes. I dont know if the signal sections are longer than normal on Rattery but if they are Bahamas should have been regulated to time to avoid the stop.
I freely admit to being an enthusiast so maybe main line drivers or firemen will pick holes in what I say.
I have put quotation marks around quotes from previous posts to help you Al and my quotes in colour.. hope this helps ...
While the loco crew clearly did a fine job I wonder about the wisdom of the TOC. If the rails had been wet, the train would surely never have made it up Rattery. Would the diesel have been available for a push on the down run?
As can be seen in the video the Jube was going at a decent pace through Totnes, so it must of been an abrupt stop !
A quote from a person aboard the train: ''Spoke to Bahamas' crew at Plymouth who advised that the were 'thrown a red signal by the signaller' as they passed Totnes''.
This could certainly tie in with Liam's mention of a trespass incident. <BJ>
The previous HST was rather slow which was concerning, so when the Jube eventually came into shot at a considerably lower pace than expected I did think of potential reported trespass. I think this has been disregarded, so it can only be due to the early running and catching the HST in front, which is unusual as that should of been way out of range but its slow pace suggested otherwise.
Signal section lengths are "uneven" to put it politely.
E100 215m03ch Aller Jn
DM217 217m60ch Dainton
E96 222m18ch App Totnes
E98 222m76ch Totnes starting signal
E100 223m40ch Totnes "advance starter"
DM227 227m36ch Rattery
DM230 229m19ch Brent
DM234 234m78ch Ivybridge
One signal section of four miles climbing Rattery, yet 2 and three quarter miles climbing Dainton.
This is reflected in the headways listed in Train Planning Rules published by Network Rail.
6' Newton Abbot to Totnes.
8' Totnes to Hemerdon.
So that might explain why a train passing non stop through Totnes only five minutes after a preceding train having recently departed may be checked on Rattery.
That does rather consign the speculation/chunter from, amongst others @Western Venturer, to the enthusiast dustbin of debate. All good stuff at one level but hardly informing reality.
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