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The White Rose 29th October 2016

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by 1020 Shireman, Oct 21, 2016.

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  1. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Look at the start time for this train...

    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U50681/2016/10/29/advanced
    Rtn:
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U50682/2016/10/29/advanced

    and what about 6 hours 26 minutes for the return epic journey!!!
     
    1020 Shireman, Oct 21, 2016
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  2. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    That is a good example, if ever you needed one, to show that sadly WCRC has no leverage over charter times on the ECML. I was actually going to book on this but not now. It's possible, of course, that the timings might be renegotiated. I presume that they are assuming nobody will be boarding at KGX in which case you do wonder whether they would be better off going straight from Southall to Stevenage with the first pick up there. Ditto for the return.
     
    Big Al, Oct 21, 2016
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  3. AMP

    AMP Member

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    I was booked on this (I'm not now given the times). These are the confirmed times and are now shown on RTCs website.

    I agree Al, I think this showing West Coast level on the ECML certainly with steam anyway. It will be interesting to see how the times for the 03/12/16 trip to Lincoln compares with the DB operated one of two weeks ago......

    Andrew
     
    AMP, Oct 21, 2016
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  4. J Shuttleworth

    J Shuttleworth Member

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    Unfortunately, we tried but another charter has taken the 'usual' 07.15 path, so it was either earlier or later. Later would have meant a very late return into London and no hope of getting the stock and loco back to Southall (which is a fairly important consideration).

    Not good - but neither is imminent further pressure on paths on the ECML, especially when two water-stops are needed between London and York. It's not a case of 'leverage'.

    JS
     
    J Shuttleworth, Oct 21, 2016
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  5. hatherton hall

    hatherton hall Well-Known Member

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    hatherton hall, Oct 21, 2016
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  6. hatherton hall

    hatherton hall Well-Known Member

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    James. What difference would it make if NR sanctioned certain Class 8 steam locomotives to run above the moderate 75mph limit? Maybe to 80 or 85mph. Would this help the pathing issues and is this suggestion ever likely to happen??
     
    hatherton hall, Oct 21, 2016
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  7. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Second tenders/water carriers - wouldn't they help? Bittern did KX to York without a water stop on one of the Coronations.
     
    1020 Shireman, Oct 21, 2016
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  8. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I take the point entirely about the fact that the departure had to be earlier or later. But it seems to me that the York trip really does deserve to be prioritised over any other charter because of the water stops and the time it takes to get to York nowadays. There is physically no way of getting to King's Cross for a 0606 departure by using public transport. So everyone not in London itself would have to drive around the M25 at silly o'clock to get the train from Stevenage because it's not even calling at the more convenient Potters Bar.

    I'm thinking of the scene in Milton Keynes with two charters, both of which will have been set up weeks ago and presumably with their individual requests. One is the WCRC trip and everyone knows roughly what timings are needed for that because it's not the first time that WCRC has run in this path or something similar and NR would be aware. The other is the UKRT/DBC? trip to Hull with a locomotive that has a faster permitted speed on the network and therefore, in theory, with better pathing options than with the RTC trip. What does NR do? Do they contact each TOC beforehand and mention the problem or just produce the timings and say "take it or leave it"?

    What I meant by 'leverage' is simply the fact that if you viewed these two trips dispassionately, the suggested path for the RTC trip may be workable but it's hardly practicable and surely NR understands this? Yet, it appears that nothing could be negotiated. And then there are the crazy hours that the WCRC crews and support crews will have to work.

    In an ideal world, you wouldn't get clashes like this because operators would talk to each other and with NR at the planning stage to try and avoid these problems but I guess that's competition for you.

    Sorry, that's a bit of a rant. I feel sorry for WCRC who, notwithstanding what JS has said may have found themselves at the back of the queue on this one.
     
    Big Al, Oct 21, 2016
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  9. Romsey

    Romsey Part of the furniture

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    There was an unwritten rule in train planning "first on the graph".

    If this still applies, vacant paths could be used and confirmed for engineering works alterations before the charters were even bid. The prickly decisions come when the engineering alterations are for timetabled freights that may not run ..... but won't be declared as cancelled until just over a week before operation.
    From my experience in train planning there could be a little bit of flexibility between train operators, as long as public advertised for timetabled services were not affected. On the other hand there probably aren't enough staff in train planning to have time to look at alternatives to resolve the problem.

    Cheers, Neil
     
    Romsey, Oct 22, 2016
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  10. JDTTRAINS

    JDTTRAINS Member

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    Been told by the return journey driver that there are no plans to take a diesel on the rear of this train. Waiting for a reply from a friend who is booked on board for the load.

    Edit: Load 11 tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
    JDTTRAINS, Oct 28, 2016
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  11. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture Friend

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    'uk-rail' message mentions 46233 heading north but no word of diesel assistance.

    Note that news messages sent to uk-rail normally regard diesel operations. <BJ>
     
    free2grice, Oct 29, 2016
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  12. Waterbuck

    Waterbuck Member

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    Word from on board is the 47 stayed in the London.
    (Thank you Iain)
     
    Waterbuck, Oct 29, 2016
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  13. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Can confirm that there was no box on the back when she swept through Arlesey in the dark this morning.
     
    Spamcan81, Oct 29, 2016
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  14. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Good to hear. Perhaps we're seeing a return to proper steam being the norm for RTC. Nice one West Coast. Pity the paths weren't better.
     
    1020 Shireman, Oct 29, 2016
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  15. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Not certain that your "return to proper steam comment is fair". I don't carry a flag for RTC but isn't it the case that the RTC has nearly always run their trips without a minder except when the operation of the trip required it? On the other hand, that's generally not the case with Steam Dreams now and for the known reasons about their stock and vacuum brake.
     
    Big Al, Oct 29, 2016
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  16. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Yes but not always on the ECML is what I meant.
     
    1020 Shireman, Oct 29, 2016
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  17. FlyingScotsman4472

    FlyingScotsman4472 Member

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    FlyingScotsman4472, Oct 29, 2016
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  18. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Spamcan81, Oct 29, 2016
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  19. FlyingScotsman4472

    FlyingScotsman4472 Member

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    Spamcan81...thank you. Yes Newark must have the best station lights along the ECML.
     
    FlyingScotsman4472, Oct 29, 2016
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  20. TH Railway Videos

    TH Railway Videos Member

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    46233 seen at MKC on the LE move the day before, then the tour itself at Arlesey, PBO & Biggleswade
     
    TH Railway Videos, Oct 29, 2016
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