Titanic Carriages

Interesting read on BBC:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-56941766

Shame they are at risk, but hopefully the Titanic society will succeed in saving them. Surely the Mid Hants and it’s carriage workshop would be the best home for these. Much more appropriate for the line than those Brighton 4 wheelers they have.

 

I assume it is these two:

http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=307
http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=310

I think the connection to the Titanic is a bit tenuous (LSWR carriages of about the right era - is there anything else to specifically link them to the ship? You'd need something like the relevant carriage working diagrams I guess, but good luck to the owner if it helps raise the profile a bit.

Tom

 

Yes probably tenuous, but the Titanic Society seem keen to save them. They have previous form in helping to save the SS Nomadic.

This is being reported on BBC South Today this evening, so worth a watch.

 

Does the MHR have the space to store them in order to conserve them?

Ironically they were at the mid hants until the 1990s

Considering the loss of the LSWR restaurant car in the fire, it would be good to see them saved and restored.

 

Interesting to note that Nathan Au of the Swanage Railway has now declared an interest in them to use with 563, on the BTS Facebook page.

 

Here is a link to the BBC news feature:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=...FSXtu3SgT8_9jA&v=7FJW4lLphIs&feature=youtu.be

 

This sounds like an interesting proposal although, as normal, there are a fair few ''buts'' involved.

Firstly, the need for weatherproof workshop space including appropriate machinery. Even with these the task will be a lengthy one. Some lines such as the L.C.D.R. specified long lived teak. Did the L.S.W.R. "make do'' with less durable mahogany?

Just as important is the availability of skilled people. It is a real joy to see highly skilled woodworkers, painters and upholsterers but they are rather scarce.

Good luck.

 

The initial problem of threat of scrapping would seem fairly easy to resolve. Find a new location and book some low loaders. Restoration is of course an entirely different matter!

The BBC feature also shows an Ironclad brake in the background. I believe it’s owned by the same owner. Hopefully that will be saved too, as a brake coach would be needed if these coaches ever became operational.

Encouraging that the Swanage Railway have made some noises about this.

 

Not quite so easy - you'll need several thousand pounds for the low loaders!

 

https://www.facebook.com/BritishTitanicSociety/posts/2845008379089422

Looks like The British Titanic Society is behind the story.

Worth pointing out that a lot (all?) of the work required could be done by 'non railway' people

 

Relatively easy compared to the restoration.

The BTS are now saying they have appointments booked with various organisations to discuss the matter, so hopefully something will come of that.

 

Has anyone asked James Cameron for a few bob?

 

These coaches along with some others at the railway were owned by a guy called John Down. I think he did do some limited work on them but then died about 10 years ago. His family were trying to dispose of them at the time so not sure if they were sold onto someone else or not but it is why they have ended up in a limbo situation.

Hopefully something positive can happen with them but I know from experience it is a long hard slog restoring one, especially as a spare time hobby, but it can be done.

 

And several hundred thousand for the restoration ...

The carriages in question are both restaurant cars; AIUI London - Southampton services didn't generally have catering accommodation (for what was a short journey). They were built for London - Plymouth; London - Bournemouth / Weymouth and Bournemouth - Birkenhead / Sheffield services. Subsequently starting in 1931 they were rebuilt (with the clerestories removed) by the Southern Railway; some were then rebuilt again by the military as Ambulance Cars, or else ended their days as tool vans, camping coaches etc. (The two in question ended up as ambulance vehicles)

A third example of the same series came up for sale some years ago. It was in much better condition, having been stored under cover at Bicester for many years, and is now in the NRM at York, restored in its final form as an ambulance vehicle:

http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=4583

So whoever takes them on firstly has a fairly poor starting point due to years out in the open; and secondly has to decide whether to rebuild (with clerestory) back to LSWR dining car form or into the 1930s SR nondescript saloon form; or as ambulance vehicles. Whatever is chosen is likely to be very expensive, and the link to the Titanic seems to me somewhat tenuous.

Tom

 

Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story Tom!

 

Next he'll be tutting about space, and after that it is a slippery slope and before you know it he'll have moved to Hayling Island and will be decrying everything built after 1880 and declaring everything larger than a P as a big chuffer.

 

Danger acute thread drift warning.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see one or both restored (though I think in post 1931 form is probably a more realistic proposition). But don't underestimate just how big a job that is likely to be: if it were easy, they would have been done a decade ago.

Gordon Weddell's book on LSWR carriages has the full history of the vehicles, but is somewhat silent on that point (or construction in general), concentrating mostly on the the interiors. However, there is a brief comment about the contemporary corridor carriages built for the West of England that suggests they had teak frames. There is also a note on the overhaul page for LSWR 1520 that notes that some teak uprights from a derelict LSWR ground body were incorporated in the reconstruction of that carriage - so tentatively I would suggest that the LSWR did use teak frames at that period. Obviously in the current case the roof structure was replaced in 1931 when the clerestories were removed; at the same time steel sheeting was fitted to the exteriors in replacement of the original panels (which Weddell hints might have been mahogany on the bottom and pine above).

Tom

 

The three coaches (including Ironclad) have been owned by a private owner, struggling to keep them water tight in the ravages of the South Wales weather. If the BTS can get some more people and money behind the project then more chance of something happening. Still a massive project of course.

I’m sure the BTS would insist on restoration to original condition. The question is will they lose interest if they can be proved not to be part of the Titanic trains? At least their plight has now been well publicised and other organisations such as the Swanage Railway are offering support.