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Tornado

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Leander's Shovel, Oct 20, 2007.

  1. Romsey

    Romsey Part of the furniture

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    There will be a surplus of mark 3's available in a few years from Greater Anglia or GW HST sets, so it's a now or never chance. Some HST's will go on for further use in Scotland but I suspect many will go for scrap.

    The idea of mark 3's for charter work was kicked around by some train planners about 10/12 years ago, using stock displaced from WCML. ( I think there may have been an article in Steam Railway at the time.) The initial idea was to increase the number of seats for a given train load, improve quality and reduce maintenance costs. Opening windows were also suggested as the mark 3 window apertures are the same size as 150 sprinters and 455 emu's. So hopper vent windows are still off the shelf items. As far as I recall "steerage class" would not have air conditioning to save maintenance - thus the opening hopper vents.

    It's not beyond the ability of a number of companies to dust off the design for the Euronight generator cars (converted from mark 3's) and rebuild more vehicles to the design.

    As Matt37401 said some of the charter stock is dreadful. This is the last chance to do get better stock and improve the public image without it being an eyewatering cost. As for a proposed livery, I don't really care as long as it isn't the bile green of the Pilkington set in the 1980s'!

    Cheers, Neil
     
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  2. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting stuff. It's good to see the A1 Trust laying out a long term plan. I do find some things a bit confusing about the train and it's base but sure it'll get clarified soon.

    I say go for the teak look as well. Will look good with the P2 and A1.

    Didn't the NRM have a similar plan when Steve Davies was in charge where they were going to get some Mk2 stock painted in Maroon with Gold Stripes to go behind 6229 when it was being considered fore overhaul.
     
  3. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    If someone has got a few million quid for a set of Mk3s what about painting them maroon with gold strips, another million quid and the NRM could put a streamlined Duchess on the front.
     
  4. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    You do realise these people are the most hardcore LNER fans on earth? Lol

    Sawdust.
     
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  5. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    I did say someone, I wasn't implying that the Trust would take it on.
     
  6. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    If only 't were that simple! :p
     
  7. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    The hard bit is coming up with the cash, everything has a price
     
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  8. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

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    47mph isn't very ambitious. How about 4 hours to Newcastle?:)
     
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  9. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Not knowing for sure but I suspect that a train of 10 Mk3's takes less effort to haul than 12-13 Mk1's. Coupled with a Loco cleared for 90. that's a train that might fit in Paths that others wouldn't. still like the idea of a 43 Cab on one end of it
    Why a V4 ? Answer - these are the most Hard core LNER Fans on earth ....
     
  10. Yorkshire Exile

    Yorkshire Exile Member

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    GB said "somewhere under 4 hours". That could be 3hours!!
     
  11. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Any photoshoppers out there prepared to do a view testers of Mk1V's for us in
    1) Silver Jubilee
    2) Coronation Blues
    3) Scrumbled teak Thompson style
    4) Cream and Apple Green
    4) Crimson and cream
    ?

    Sorry that should be Mk3's

    Time for a New thread - A1/P2/V4 slts Rolling Stock... ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2016
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  12. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

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    Tom,
    I helped dismantle a Mk3 sleeper. What was surprising was that each compartment was bespoke. Different size timber, different screw patterns etc IMHO they would be just as bad a a Mk1 to renovate
     
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  13. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres

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    Presumably because it was the last Gresley design but was never fully trialled given the Thomson and Peppercorn eras that followed SNG's early death. Given the commendable feats achieved by the K4 3442 / 61994 there are many who feel that a V4 would be worthwhile developing whilst filling a gap in the LNER's fleet history
     
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  14. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    And more power to their elbow.
     
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  15. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Resident of Nat Pres Account Suspended

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    Ooh, I hope so.... :) Don't you mean Mk. IIIs though?
     
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  16. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest

    The bulk of this comment I have posted on another forum but probably worth repeating here. Some of the issues have been touched on in in this thread. I would add that currently a goodly number of Mark IIIs of all types are laying about at locations such as the Quinton Rail Technology Centre and Barrow Hill Roundhouse in the ownership of various parties, some of whom may or may not have plans for them. This leads to another question, who exactly are the carriages going to be acquired from and is that signed and sealed with dates of release etc.?

    Anyhow, this is what I said elsewhere.

    Rather sceptical it will happen but time will tell. Hopefully the 'hacks from the mags' will be asking a lot of questions before running the story. A few I would like to know the answer too:-

    How has the structural integrity of carriages that have seen 40+ years frontline service been affected by not having a rigid underframe as in early designs and are potential defects easily resolvable or even understood in the first place.

    Have all the engineering challenges of the modifications being worked through in particular the effect of extra weight on the structure, electrics, plumbing, air-flow, fire resistance etc.

    What is the position of a German owned train operator going to be post brexit. Will it still be viable for them to be involved in rail operations in Britain? If so will they still be offering operation of trains of this type for third parties?

    Will a market still exist in the early part of the next decade for the upper end of the excursion market at which this train is clearly aimed? Many of the current 'never had it so good pensioners' will have 'spent the kids inheritance' and be restricted to shed or local workings. Will the following generations be so willing to spend their more limited cash on such things? In addition they will have most likely have to compete with Belmond, Icons of Steam and quite probably a couple of WCRCo train sets for those well healed punters pounds.

    Post December 2018 how many suitable paths will exist for trains of this type and what, where and when will they exist. It is well known the massive re-write following Thameslink, Elizabeth Line, GW and other electrifications is going to squeeze the white space in the timetable.
     
  17. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    A statement made by many people when the plans for an A1 were drawn up but the A1SLT proved them all wrong. I suspect the P2 had/has its doubters but I suspect they'll be proved wrong too. I have no doubt that those doubting the ability of the A1SLT to produce their own charter rake will be proved wrong too. I'll be surprised if they haven't done a lot of research already prior to making this announcement.
     
  18. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    If such negative what ifs had been around the railway scene 60 years we would have no heritage railways now, come to think of it, going back even further its just as well George Stephenson didn't have the same outlook.
     
  19. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    They can't be too bad. I went on a trip behind Tornado two years ago and managed to come out alive! :)
     
  20. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

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    My understanding is that Thompson appreciated the excellence of the V4s for the job they were intended to do but in a wartime situation it was more sensible to throw the cheaper and quicker to build and maintain 2-6-0s and 4-6-0s (the B1s) into the play. Just like the endless debate we have had on the pacifics, a matter of the exigencies of the times.
     
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