If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Tornado

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Leander's Shovel, Oct 20, 2007.

  1. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,394
    Likes Received:
    16,517
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Excrement happens and a lot has gone wrong since the Ebor Flyer incident, don't mention the support coach! What is unforgiveable is to keep the supporters in the dark, or worse treating them like idiots. Anyone with a passing knowledge of steam would know that the driving wheels would have been returned with the tyres turned to spec, the phrase used by the trust; 'The locomotive has had new tyres fitted during this overhaul, and they are at maximum size. With Tornado’s boiler now fitted, we better understand the clearances needed and can turn the tyres to our exact requirement to minimise wastage. To ensure safe and reliable operation, the tyres will be turned to size.' is obviously a just a collection of old testicles. Why not come out and say exactly what has happened and the cause of it? They would have retained a lot more credibility if they had.
     
  2. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,601
    Likes Received:
    2,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Looking over posts from recent weeks it is quite clear that something has gone seriously wrong with the Trust. I have always admired what they have achieved with Tornado and I have been impressed with the progress building the P2 and also with establishing a base for the future.
    However, I do wonder if the pressure of spinning so many plates has caused problems at the top. The latest prolonged overhaul of Tornado has been plagued with problems. Reports on here from supporters of getting very little information, if any about what is going on don't give off a very good impression to possible future supporters.
    The latest news about the tyres I find a little bizarre.

    Sent from my XQ-BT52 using Tapatalk
     
    Sheff, Matt37401 and MellishR like this.
  3. Eightpot

    Eightpot Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Messages:
    8,082
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Engineer Emeritus
    Location:
    Aylesbury
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Is the 'maximum size' more than the 6' - 8" as originally specified?
     
  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,132
    Likes Received:
    20,878
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'm prepared to cut the A1ST some slack over decisions, the timing of work on Tornado and emergent issues. I guess that the problem they may be encountering is that, rather like Flying Scotsman, it is seen as a special locomotive that has pioneered so much. In the early days it was all about fastest climbs, longest sustained running and the like. The PR over the Ebor incident was the first glimpse of a difficulty and despite the 100 mph run (that almost wasn't) it does seem that the Trust is struggling a bit to get its story across despite its new home up north, its latest new-build and high profile web site. And the fitting of advanced technology is, once again, pioneering stuff.

    Lots you could be positive about therefore.
     
    60017, Musket The Dog, CH 19 and 6 others like this.
  5. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,057
    Likes Received:
    4,685
    Occupation:
    Once computers, now part time writer I suppose.
    Location:
    SE England
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I suppose because no one does these days. It seems to be an idée fixe in the PR world that everything has to be spun, and the unvarnished truth is something rare and precious to be kept safely away from untrusted hands. I've found myself doing it in my working life too. In the past I've struggled to communicate bare facts about a problem without putting in a slant or being a bit economical with the old actualité. As soon as there was any kind of third party in the communication loop then it became nearly impossible.

    Everyone does it. I vaguely recall some US political scandal, was it Watergate, delivering something on the lines of 'no-one decided on a cover up. It's just that no-one suggested there shouldn't be a cover up'. And I bet it's the same sort of thing, no-one in the Tornado executive decides to put spin in the press statements, it's just that it doesn't occur to anyone not to.
     
  6. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,589
    Likes Received:
    2,391
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It’s a perfect example of the Johnson/Trump post-truth world we find ourselves in.

    In my career I always found that owning up to a mistake, not trying to palm the blame off and agreeing a plan to rectify it asap, at no cost to the client, was always the best course of action.

    This built trust and resulted in repeat contracts. The A1 approach achieves the polar opposite for me.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    acorb, goldfish, alastair and 6 others like this.
  7. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,414
    Likes Received:
    2,730
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chester le Street County Durham
    My wish is for Mark Allatt to make some sort of comeback.

    Myself and Brother ditched the A1 trust about 10 years ago, after it became obvious their chasing of cash down south, made our possibilities to ride behind her negligable.

    Since then we have had 2 exceptional days out to Edinburgh behind her.

    Move forward that period, and the other loco we supported, is now based at Crewe, and as yet shown no sign of starting something in NE England.

    That being the case with Tornado, et al, being based in Darlington, at least i can see them (hopefully), every other week, when the works is open.....
     
    green five, blink bonny and Kylchap like this.
  8. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    14,159
    Likes Received:
    7,674
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Naughty step
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I am pleased to read that I am not the only person who does this. People these days seem amazed if someone apologises for doing something wrong and offering to put it right: okay, there are people graceless enough not to accept it when offered but I was brought up to "say sorry" and not to need to be forced into it.
     
  9. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,207
    Likes Received:
    4,970
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Depends where you are in the "food chain".
    I always found marketing blamed engineering and procurement, and engineering blamed procurement. We in procurement only had the supplier to blame, but as we were responsible for them, still our fault. I also found that like water blame does not flow uphill.
     
  10. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,589
    Likes Received:
    2,391
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    After 25 years with a large multinational I went out on my own for 10 years, which made it even more important to operate ethically. Your reputation is never better than your last foul up. Bad news travels fast. Based on the last few years the Trust would never work again in my sphere of high risk chemicals.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    14,159
    Likes Received:
    7,674
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Naughty step
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    No, not really: it's called 'owning your mistakes'. If I've made a mistake, I don't try and say "a big boy did it and ran away" to deflect. We've had a government which has done that for the last five or more years and look where that has got us.
     
    Sheff, green five and Chris86 like this.
  12. Hermod

    Hermod Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2017
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    283
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Klitmoeller,Denmark
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    On a modellers drawing of A1 from 1949 it is stated that width over cylinders is 8 feet 9.75 inch.
    Is that the case for Tornado today and does that restrict it to former GWR/LNER territory?
    Playing best british CME.
    Just like A1 Trust.
     
  13. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,057
    Likes Received:
    4,685
    Occupation:
    Once computers, now part time writer I suppose.
    Location:
    SE England
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I wouldn't be surprised if they've shaved it a tad as I don't believe it is restricted. Gauging is a spectacularly complicated subject, but the basic W3 static freight gauge is a hair over 8'10.2 in at cylinder height. To gauge the locomotive properly mean allowing for throwover etc, and very much requires expertise I lack. AIUI these days gauging is done on a structure by structure basis so given an encroaching structure on a line she would be allowed down the line to a spot short of it but not beyond.Possibly into some platforms but not others too.
     
  14. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,851
    Likes Received:
    2,362
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Researcher/writer and composer of classical music
    Location:
    Between LBSCR 221 and LBSCR 227
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Unless the latest overhaul and new tyres have resulted in it becoming wider or taller, it is a reasonably gauge-friendly loco. See the picture below, taken at Chelsfield on 6th October 2012 - a Steam Dreams working to Canterbury. If a loco can run in Kent without bashing platform edges, etc, it can run over most lines 60163 Chelsfield small.jpg
     
  15. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    9,412
    Likes Received:
    2,338
    Occupation:
    semi-retired, currently doing R&D for my patents
    Location:
    Halifax
    In the same vein...making a mistake then someone in authority dressing you down in public. I've seen that backfire on some management and the transgressor telling them "where to stick your job". A quiet word out of view is all that's needed
     
    The Green Howards likes this.
  16. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    2,521
    Likes Received:
    3,271
    Location:
    Powys
    In my area of project management, I always make a point of saying to a new contractor that if something goes wrong, please just tell me and we can work through it. Far best to be open and get it sorted out than for it be covered up, because we inevitably find out and then it is usually a far bigger problem.
    Transparency, honesty, integrity and a culture of open communication are never more important in my view - not just in business (where it helps build trust) but in society in general. I agree though it seems to be increasingly rare in politics and I fear this gives a license for those in authority to avoid straight answers, deflect and increasingly out and out lie.
    (Note: this is a general point, not related to A1SLT, who I feel are probably guilty of incompetence, not anything malicious).
     
  17. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,684
    Likes Received:
    24,220
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I agree. It’s increasingly difficult to achieve because the reaction to bad news is so often alarm and panic, which can threaten a project or organisation more than the actual problem.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    acorb and ragl like this.
  18. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,589
    Likes Received:
    2,391
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Have any covenantors had their email copy of the latest TCC news letter?

    Apparently the postal copies were received last week?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,007
    Likes Received:
    7,896
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Yes...was in my inbox this morning.
     
    240P15 likes this.
  20. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,589
    Likes Received:
    2,391
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Thanks. Mine arrived shortly after I posted this.

    It’s been the way for sometime now, annoying when you try and save them some money on printing and postage but get a slower service.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

Share This Page