Total/Partial Steam Ban 2014

Cannot see a thread for this subject for 2014 so here goes:-

Having seen the reports for Saturdays 2 out of 3 steam tours up North falling foul of a Notwork Fail ban on steam, has this been confirmed? and will we get a repeat of 2013 with diesels tucked in behind the steam loco?

 

It wasn't a country-wide ban, just a York area ban. My guess is that the latter will continue indefinitely, but that other areas will only ban steam as and when required (e.g. when the FBU is on strike). It is suggested on another thread that only 46115 is coming over with the diesel and ECS from Carnforth, which would tend to support my thinking re York - no point in sending two locos over for the SSE and Waverley, as was originally planned, if they are just going to be pushed around by a diesel all the time.

 

With the prospect of 30C plus later this week in parts of the UK, there should be no surprises at all this week for dual traction or even diesel only on what were planned as steam trips.

And personally, whilst it may be know I am a bit of a steam freak, I do rather like the dual traction photos that get posted here when the diesel is coupled to the steam loco. Either behind or in front of it.

To me it gives a rather different slant to the current scene.

 

Seems to me this has been a slightly better than average June and early July in these parts but far from heatwave conditions. Max temperature so far in Leeds 25C, the countryside is green. Taking Ben of Vintage Trains estimate of £4 to 5k per day for a diesel and knocking off something for loco hire because WCR own theirs, I worry about the commercial future of the SSE and Waverley summer ops. It was interesting that the York zone (according to Ben) published its advisory last Tuesday, well before any actual fire event. We shall see what happens but it could be two years running of double heading without either summer being particularly extreme. A very unpleasant cost penalty if it turns out that way.

 

Not strictly true. For example, I know of 2 other locos that started fires last year: 5043 caused problems in May on her run to Marylebone, and even Clan Line set fire to a stubble field near Andover in Sept. No one would say those locos are not well-maintained. WCRC may have had a worse record than other loco operators, and there may be things they need to do about their FTR arrangements, but it can, and does, happen to anyone.

 

I don't know, what do you think?

 

Am i right in thinking that their is no obligation for a mainline cert'ed steam locomotive to have anykind of spark arresting arrangement over and above what would have been fitted when designed ?... So unless all steam locomotive owners /operators voluntarily retro fit the most effective spark arresting arrangements available ( which due to our loading gauge precludes the use of 'Balloon stacks' on most locomotives thank god) then Mainline steam is going to remain susceptible to a banning order across the board...

Before any says 'but spark arrestors inhibit performance' there are ways and means... or you can just accept a box...

 

best just to 'knock it on the head' and have no steam, saves being disappointed all summer

 

How many operations do WCRC run compared to DBS? DBS operate Torbays and British Pullman, and occasional other tours. Half a dozen a month maybe? WCRC have up to twenty a week in the summer - one offs and repeat operations. The sheer volume of WCRC tours compared to DBS means they're more likely to be responsible for any fires.

 

Given that most of the current locos on the rails are WCRC crewed and maintained, its foolish to lay the blame for fires at the hands of one operator. NO current mainline certified loco has been immune from causing fires. You carry 40 or 50 square feet of red hot burning coals around with you you are gonna have problems, WCR or no WCR.

The cause is of course that undergrowth and vegetation has over the years encroached near to the line side whereas in the old days steam kept the lines burned back. You can't expect NR to to keep 15 yards of undergrowth either side of the line burned back, besides the tree huggers won't let them.

Whats the fuss? We are lucky in the UK, in that we get steam, a lot of it, almost through the entire year, if there is the odd break because of the dry weather, then so be it.

my only complaint in these circumstances is when a diesel pilot is put up in front of the steam loco. Don't bother, its a waste of time for everybody, and by doing so operators are taking the pish and treating the paying pax as fools - leave the kettle at home.

 

WCRC - I suspect - have a "worse record" simply because they operate more steam-hauled trains, whether charter or regular / seasonal workings hence it's unfair to indicate that WCRC is at (greater) fault than any other operator; in that context I wonder whether the percentages of loco problems per days operated would bear out your suggestion ?

It may also be of interest to note that the widely publicised WCRC fire problems on the ECML were NOT entirely WCRC caused as political decisions were taken that resulted in it appearing that WCRC were the culprit; those who need to know are aware of the full facts.

And in a similar "blame culture" the incident at Ordsell Junction that resulted in 47500 self combusting was blamed on "faulty WCRC maintenance / standards" by the armchair warriors who have yet to recant after thorough investigation by RAIB experts confirmed the fault to be Network Rail's track standards and its maintenance regime of same.

I am not an employee of WCRC but am aware that its staff are both enthusiasts and dedicated hence my concern that unjustified criticisms are being made with neither substance or proof. Its also worth pointing out that of the 3 steam trains that worked in the north last weekend the ONLY one to work without restriction was that operated from - and crewed by - WCRC !

 

Except of course the fires that were started by the Non WCRC maintained locos.

 

sse empty stock passing Cononley

 

From which 'official' records do you quote?

Before you answer, there are no 'official' records. MSLO has no 'official' status (and doesn't have access to all relevant the data, either) - it lost the opportunity 20 years ago.

 

Why is that worth pointing out? Even if correct, it's irrelevant.

 

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All it takes is a couple of hot days every summer for a flame war to start on Nat Pres.

 

I personally witnessed lineside fires at North Harrow during last year's Met 150 runs. Despite having Sarah Siddons tucked in behind and a diesel on the back, 9466 was working hard and chucking out a lot of black smoke. Just after it passed, one lineside fire had started between the up fast track and the down platform, and another just beyond the station on the up side of the embankment, i.e. three tracks over from the one the train was on. Despite that, no steam ban was imposed for the rest of the day.