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Two exiled A4s to return from North America for two years - official

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by shedbasher, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. 60007

    60007 New Member

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    Thats is excellent news I cant wait to see the locos returning home.
     
  2. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

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    Reading the latest issue of Railway Magazine there is no mention of the shipping cost. The only info to note is both locos are on a two year loan.
     
  3. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    So how much did it cost to bring 2x 8fs around 3000m by sea from Turkey ?, and some rather large NBL locomotives from 5000 miles by sea from South Africa ?, and these around 4000 miles from their homes.

    Six figures yes, starting with a 6 no, Unless there's more to it than we know..

    They could be flying them here for that price.

    Anyone checked at www.royalmail.com for shipping prices ?
     
  4. keith6233

    keith6233 Member

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    What everybody as missed in my original post is the fact that the Bowes railway is under considerable threat of closer due to the withdrawal of funding of £18,500.Any spare money should be used to preserve and conserve what we already have not wasted on bringing these locos over to take pictures of.
     
  5. steamdream

    steamdream Member

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    absolutely agree with you! To wast 200000 pounds or more for the only benefit of some camera maniacs is ridiculous and obscene when one of the most historically interesting preserved railway is dying by lack of elementatry money
    sad!
    regards
    noel
     
  6. Selsig

    Selsig Member

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    But again, this misses the point that just because money is available for project a (and as yet nobody has said that it *is* available, just that sponsorship will be sought) does not mean that that same money is available for project b.

    Taking it to extremes - lets say that a football team has agreed a £25 million transfer fee for a player, but on the other side of the country a hospital needs rebuilding for £500,000. However strongly we may feel that the overpaid, underskilled prima donnas are less deserving of that cash than the hospital, and I doubt anyone would argue against that, the chances of the club owner going "we'll forgo this player and rebuild the hospital instead" are nil. The decision of what to spend money on ultimately rests with the one spending it, and it is not for us to say whether it is right or wrong, regardless of our own feelings. The only way we can influence is by dipping our hands in our pockets ourselves, and what interests you, might be seen as a catastrophic waste of money by someone else.
     
  7. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Thats true but this is not such an extreme contrast; this is all railway heritage and its not beyond the bounds of belief that the NRM could support the Bowes Railway for its unique infrastructure instead of temporarily importing two locos, 4 of which already exist in this country ... for what exact purpose????
     
  8. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    It is not a simple case of money - but a simple case of the meeting of those willing to sell with those wiilling to buy.

    In simple terms the NRM wants to celebrate 75 years since Mallard gained the world speed record and has arranged to have all 6 surviving A4s brought together - at whatever cost. The NRM knows its market well enough to know that there are sufficient people willing to pay the price to see that scenario hence the NRM is encouraged to go ahead and make it happen.

    The Bowes Railway is historically important but hasn't marketed itself to a wide enough market to gain the support that the NRM has; whether that is a fault of geography or limited resources I do not know but has the Bowes Railway marketed itself enough to have sufficient interest that people will donate funds to keep it going ? I understand that the railway has quoted a figure of £18,000 needed - is that per annum or just to keep it open NOW ? If the Railway is looking for support it needs to "get the word out QUICKLY" and state precisely what it needs and for how long.

    It is an interesting comparison; the NRM has kept people informed and stated the cost but knows there is sufficient support to meet it whilst the Bowes Railway has been unable to do the same and looks set to pay the cost.
     
  9. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    'Spare money' ? I think you are making the mistake of assuming that this is an 'either/or' situation.
    The money being used to bring over the A4s, whether it be through sponsorship/direct appeals/loans or whatever, would not necessarily be available to any other project. Whether we like it or not, people donate and companies sponsor because there is something in it for themselves (sponsors-good publicity, individuals-favourite project/memories). While the Bowes railway is a very worthy cause and deserves to survive, you can't compare it's appeal with the A4 lineup costs - where would you stop? Lots of railways have current appeals - why is one more worthy than another, and why are any of them more worthy than the A4 lineup? Answer - they're not! We give to what we want to, let's hope that both projects are successful.

    Keith
     
  10. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    Perhaps the Bowes Railway could become a part of a larger established museum? As a well-preserved Colliery railway it could legitimately become the rail outpost of the National Mining Museum or the industrial outpost of the NRM.
     
  11. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    True again, but doesn't the NRM have, at least a moral, duty of care of the UKs railway heritage/history? I know you will say they cannot do everything but personally I would think it a lot more appropriate if they threw their not inconsiderable resources behind the Bowes Railway rather than the somewhat fanciful A4 temporary repatriation.
     
  12. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

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    The Bowes Railway has been permanently on the edge more or less since it started. It has had very low visitor numbers, vandalism, arson to contend with along with lack of funding and volunteers. Even Willcock in one of his original marginally amusing almanacs once noted that 'the staff at the Bowes Railway were shocked to discover one morning that it had completely disappeared overnight - police blame local children' (very much paraphrased). Maybe the scheme at the end of the day just isn't viable and just will not survive however many emergency appeals are created to get it through the latest crisis.

    Maybe a one way trip to the vet for the sick puppy...
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The Bowes Railway is a fantastic place and well deserved of national recognition. It stands head and shoulders above the majority of heritage railways in its historical and operational context.

    However, and this is the crunch, the vast majority of railway enthusiasts have little interest in it because the locomotives weren't in an Ian Allan combined volume and there are no coaches to pull. There is no glamour there, only history and technology. Cross out the words 'railway enthusiast' and substitute 'Joe Public' and the same applies. No matter how much you try, you will struggle to get this recognition. The same applies to many an institution outside the sphere of heritage railways. In Leeds we have Thwaite Mills, a one time putty mill. Not many people are interested in putty mills and I'm sure that Leeds City Council would love to be rid of it but the place is an absolute gem. In use until 1974, when the mill race gave way, it was almost solely powered by a water wheel. Electricity for lighting consisted of 55 batteries recharged by a small oil engine. Nearly everything was powered by water, including conveyors (wooden, apart from the belt), the mills and a lift. One of the mills has an oil engine as it was too big for the water wheels. This was pure Victorian (and earlier) technology still in daily use into the last years of the 20th Century. Opening it to the public destroyed much of its ambience but it is still worth a visit if you're in Leeds. You can even combine it with a trip to Middleton, it's only a mile away!

    Thwaite Mills - Homepage

    A bit far removed from discussing A4's, though!
     
  14. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    As has been quoted in another post, it's the lack of visitor numbers which is the problem and since heritage railways rely on the general public to make up most of the "foot fall," it's the failure to attract Joe Public in sufficient numbers which has held back the Bowes. Vandalism and theft do not help either. Not far away there is the Tanfield which seems to be reasonably successful and that doesn't have ex-BR locos either so the "Ian Allan" comment of yours is barely relevant. Further south there is the Foxfield, again no ex-BR locos but reasonably successful so I can only conclude that these two lines are much better at getting Joe Public through the door than the Bowes. It's a cracking little line but unless it can increase visitor numbers then it will always struggle.
     
  15. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    It's not just for camera maniacs - an offensive term anyway - but for the wider public that the NRM is seeking to celebrate Mallard's record with this A4 lineup.
    As for the Bowes, may I suggest you put your money where your mouth is?
     
  16. Gwenllian2001

    Gwenllian2001 Member

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    But Mallard is already here. Isn't that enough to celebrate?

    Meic
     
  17. TimJNV

    TimJNV New Member

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    who is this event actually trying to appeal to?
     
  18. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Do you celebrate your birthday on your own?
     
  19. keith6233

    keith6233 Member

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    Engines celebrating birthdays sounds like something out of Thomas the tank.
     
  20. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thomas the Tank ?????

    He's now been fitted with a 120mm canon? That should sure scare the living cr*p out of those troublesome trucks!!

    What next, Gordon the Tender?
     

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