If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Unusual Piece of Track at Penrhyn Castle Railway Museum

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Allan Thomson, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    13
    In amongst the display of Narrow Gauge Trackwork was an usual 'piece of track'(?) which I have never seen before. It seemed to consist of two timber baulks joined by a set of 'metal sleepers', but the sleepers were positions above the baulks rather than below. I wondered if perhaps a piece of rail was then attached to the metal sleepers, but couldn't see any sign of this in the display. I've attached a picture, and wondered if anyone could explain exactly how the 'track' was used, or provide images of the piece of track in us? Unusual piece of Trackwork.jpg
     
  2. Corbs

    Corbs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,713
    Likes Received:
    727
    Is this from an early waggonway where the wagons' wheels ran in ruts on the outside of the rail?
     
  3. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    16,510
    Likes Received:
    7,753
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
  4. 48DL

    48DL Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    North Warwickshire
    The only reference I had to this type of P-way is from Mr Boyd and the theory was that some kind of rail sat on the top, keeping gauge by resting in the groove as seen on the top of the "sleeper", in fact if I remember, it is the rail in the background.
     
  5. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,634
    Likes Received:
    1,921
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    If it took a rail on the top, there would be very little space for any sort of flange, and no way I can see to support a taller 'rail' . Strange!

    Richard
     
  6. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    13
    I did wonder if the grove was for some sort of rail. The track at the back with the stone sleepers (and a few other sections there) included a round rail section on which a double flanged wheel ran, and I wondered if maybe the system worked ina similar way? I think possibly that it was in use on an incline railway, but couldn't be certain. There wasn't any interpretation boards there to give further explanation.
     
  7. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    5,806
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Occupation:
    Ex a lot of things.
    Location:
    Near where the 3 Ridings meet
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Would the dished sleepers? be from an incline with the rope lying on the sleepers?

    Or I have seen something similar but not in railway use for lowering barrels down a slope.
     
  8. The Decapod

    The Decapod New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    6
    Is this a piece of track at all? Or is it s sort of carrying sled (upside down in the picture) that would slide along the track in the background which has circular section bar rails? I'm thinking the the grooves on the metal tie bars of the supposed sled might sit on top of the bar rails - which might have been greased. Of course, such a 'sledway' would have to be straight or nearly straight. Just a thought ! Also the bar rails in the background don't appear to be fixed in the chairs, indicating this could have been a portable system, where track is taken up from behind the sled and placed in front of it as it's moved. Perhaps used for moving stone blocks? Or maybe a slipway for putting boats in and out of water?
     
  9. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    13
    That is a good thought. This is fast turning into one of those mystery object's games. The thing is can anyone authoritively know what it is or how it was used?
     
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,102
    Likes Received:
    57,422
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Have you tried asking the museum directly? Even if they don't have any visible display boards, they must have records of it as an artefact, recording where it came from etc. That might give some clues.

    Tom
     
  11. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    13
    Unfortunately the museum was not in season, so it wasn't really practical to ask, however I guess if there is an email contact I could send the picture and ask. I would hazard a guess that the attendants themselves may not have known, and with it being a weekend out of season I doubt there would be any curators present who could do the research to answer the questions.
     
  12. PenrhynWorker

    PenrhynWorker New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    These are just the sleeper from the original Penrhyn tramway built in 1801 between the quarry and porth Penrhyn, they supported an early type of rail which is rare to find in substantial lengths as the rail was cast or wrought and very brittle. It is believed that the bowl in the sleepers was to allow the horses to walk along the centre of the track

    Ellis
    PQL
     
  13. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    13
    Interesting, thankyou for that answer Ellis. Are there any images of the system in use (drawings, I guess none survived in situ till early photography?
     
  14. PenrhynWorker

    PenrhynWorker New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    your welcome :), uh I’m not sure if there are any, im not 100% sure when they stopped using the system but the tramway was lifted when the Penrhyn railway was built (to take out the 3 inclines between Felin Fawr and the port). The system was rebuilt in stages starting in 1876. I've attached a picture of the rail that was used. For more information visit: Penrhyn Quarries Limited it has all the history and the current project
    cam rail 021.JPG cam rail 022.JPG cam rail 023.JPG
     
  15. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    13
    Thankyou, that's interesting to see the rail sections, and it makes more sense as to how the rail would have fitted in place. Would the time baulks have been present in use, or are these just added for display effect and the sleepers recessed into the ground?
     
  16. PenrhynWorker

    PenrhynWorker New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not 100% sure about this system if you send an email to Penrhyn quarries Limited they can proberbly tell you all you want to know about the system. Im only good with the railway that replaced the tramway sorry.
     
  17. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    13
    Thankyou, it has been helpful anyway. Just having a look at your site at the moment.
     
  18. PenrhynWorker

    PenrhynWorker New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    your most welcome :)
     
  19. Penrhynman

    Penrhynman New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2007
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    0
    I suspect this explanation and Mr Boyd's is correct. They are the cast sleepers used on the original 1801 Penrhyn Rail Road with oval iron rails. The theory hehind the sleepers being formed downwards is that slate waste ballast could be put over them so that the horses haulling the wagons wouldn't loose their footing nor trip up on the sleepers.

    Penrhynman
     
  20. Allan Thomson

    Allan Thomson New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    13
    Thankyou for elabourating, so are the baulks just for display then?
     

Share This Page