VoR Number 1 and 2

Ok. I was just reading on Wikipedia that the original VoR Number 1s and 2s were different to the current Swindon built tanks on the VoR, as 2 was scrapped, and 1s heave re-build was infact a complete reconstruction.

So I was just wondering, what did Nos 1 & 2 look like, as they must have been different from 7, 8 & 9?

Also, what happened to Nos 4, 5 and 6? As No 3 was Rheidol. Does anyone have a picture of Rheidol btw?

Anyways, just my intellectual curisoity going wild at a slow day in the office...hence the rant, which may have been deleted!

 

7 and 8 were GWR numbers...no 9 was something like 1213 on the GWR, renumbered 9 in BR days to make it look more sensible. No 2 was 1212 I think....

 

No 1, & No 2 (later 1212 & 1213)

The VoR commenced operations with two 2-6-2T locomotives constructed by Davies & Metcalfe of Manchester, Nos.1 and 2. These locomotives were given Nos.1212 and 1213 by the GWR when it took over the line on grouping. They were Davies and Metcalfe's first locomotives and a Great Central Railway boilersmith, Thomas Kay, provided expertise in their construction. The contract was given to a company previously inexperienced in locomotive building (although previously they were involved in the repair of locomotives and made injectors) because Mr. Metcalfe was an Aberystwyth man. The design draws inspiration from the Manning Wardle 2-6-2Ts on the then-newly-opened Lynton and Barnstaple Railway, to which they bear some resemblance.

No. 3 was a small 2-4-0T locomotive, originally built by Bagnall of Stafford for a Brazilian cane plantation in 1896 but never delivered as the order was cancelled, Bagnall regauging the locomotive from 750 mm (2 ft 5+1⁄2 in) to 2 ft 3 in (686 mm) when it was sold to the Plynlimon and Hafan Tramway and named Talybont. In 1903, after the failure of the Plynlimon and Hafan, it was purchased by the VoR, regauged to 1 ft 11+3⁄4 in (603 mm) and renamed Rheidol. The GWR numbered it 1198 in 1923, but it was withdrawn and scrapped the following year, having never carried its GWR number.

(Wikipedia)

 

Yea, I went on Wiki...just wondered what Nos 1 & 2 looked like, ie how they are different to 7, 8 & 9.

 

VoR Tanks

Several pictures of all the locos can be found in the late C.C.Green's tome on the Vale of Rheidol Light Railway, ISBN 0 906867 43 6. from Wild Swan Publishing.

Regards

Frank N.

 

Try www.abebooks.com - they are usually good to find out of print books
I've just checked actually and there are several copies available!

 

Generally they were similar, the orignals had inside stevenson valve gear, and round top fireboxes. They were less powerful then the GWR builds. There a Past and Present book about the railway as well with lots of lovey photographs of all the engines. Including the orignal engine No 1 (GWR 1212) while being stored at Swindon for about four years after being displaced by the three new machines...

 

I would definatly recommend CC Green's book. It is by far the best account of the history of the Railway and the Rheidol valley.

eBay has copies from time to time, they usually have a large selction of postcards - the early ones show Nos 1, 2 and Rheidol.

 

I wouldn't go for Ebay as you never know how much you might have to bid, and it's rare for these books to appear anyway.
As I posted above, several copies of the book are available NOW on abebooks.

 

As said above Mr Greens book on the Rheidol worth it's weight in gold will have all the info you seek. 7 and 8 were supposidly new engines under GWR and No 9 was a rebuild of 1213. When engineers have pulled this loco apart to do jobs on it they have found no differences with Nos 7 and 8 leading them to believe that 9 was pretty much a new engine along with 7 and 8.

 

I think they actually had Gooch valve gear but its very similar to Stephensons.

It's about time this idea that no 9 is a rebuild is put to bed, the two engines are totally different. I doubt any components of No1 which would have been completely worn out at the time could have been incorporated into a new loco of different design. Also i expect it would cost more to change the new design to fit the old parts than it would to build a new loco the same as 7 and 8. The rebuild thing was clearly just an excuse so Collett could get another one of these great engines built without upsetting his superiors. And why wouldn't you they're the first GWR locos with the valve gear in the right place.

BTW No4 was Palmerston which was loaned from the FR for several periods between 1912 and 1922.

Tim

 

As built, the most visible difference between the D&M locos and their GW replacements was that the sides of the bunkers were flush with the tanks, rather than extending outwards. I think in their later years the D&M locos had their bunkers extended and this was continued by the GW designers. There were also originally differences in the cab design and in the fittings on the top of the boiler, although 1212 was "Swindonised" in the 1920s.

Rheidol was the only loco able to run on the Harbour branch, which was largely disused by the time that loco came to its end.

The numbering system is a cobble-up and makes no sense if taking the VoR by itself; 1,2 & 3 were the original VoR numbers, replaced after the grouping by GW numbers 1212, 1213 and 1198 respectively; the two new engines were allocated 7 and 8; the third new loco, officially a rebuild, kept the 1213 number until it was renumbered 9 in 1946. 4, 5 & 6 were never allocated to locos resident on the VoR. After 1946 GW 3 & 4 were the Corris locos, 7,8,& 9 the Rheidol ones. For some reason 822 & 823 on the W&L were not renumbered in 1946 to match the other GW n-g locos - if they had been, either 1 & 2 or 5 & 6 would have been the logical numbers to use.

There are a number of photos of Rheidol in Vic Mitchell's new Middleton book, "Corris and Vale of Rheidol"; in its earlier guise as Talybont the best place to find photos is the late E.A. Wade's "Plynlimon & Hafan Tramway" (Twelveheads Press 1997).

Richard

 

The V of R book from Wild Swan is still in print and can be ordered direct or via good book sellers.

David

 

At the time the GWR had plenty of money in it's Repairs and Renewals Fund, so Swindon used some of that to build the third loco rather than the precious capital allocation which was needed for new bigger locos (!), but had to con the accountants into believing that it wa actually a rebuild to access said R & R Fund.

 

There is speculation that the cylinders and motion came from withdrawn steam rail-motors, so maybe they were all re-builds to some extent!

 

I knew that, It was number two that was 'surposedlly' rebuilt. Number 1 has I said ended up stored for a number years afterwards, being broken up 1930's I think...

GWR Nos. 5 & 6 were ex. Brighton 'Terriers' which the GWR brought from the dismantling of the Weston, Clevdon Light Railway (I can't remember the full name...)

 

You mean the Weston, Clevedon & Portishead.

Presumably the last two on this list -

http://www.wcandpr.org.uk/

Reminds me of the old lady who asked a porter how she could get to Portishead South by train and was told to take the GWR to Portishead and then to get on the WC & P.........she hit the porter over the head with her umbrella !

Richard