If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Welshpool and Llanfair Light Railway

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by tony51, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,686
    Likes Received:
    509
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    Wales
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes Chevallier always struck me as a good fit for Welshpool until actually put to the test. Real shame as she's quite a stunner
     
    andrewshimmin and 5944 like this.
  2. Major Midget

    Major Midget New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2019
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    One of the Sondes
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Pass, but it wouldn't surprise me given it had only to work across the relatively flat marshes on 3.4 mile round trips for the last 50 years.
     
  3. NGChrisW

    NGChrisW New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    80
    Location:
    Surrey
    From what I heard I think the only slight Achilles heel with Superb was that the injectors struggled a bit to keep up with the sustained steam generation needed on the W&L. (and there was a "perforation" or two in one of the side tanks!) I do however remember enjoying a cracking run out of Welshpool when double headed with Joan!
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  4. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    11,346
    Likes Received:
    10,811
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I recall a comment that Countess had "full sized injectors" which some firemen found them tricky to operate. If correct, might you just have explained why?
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  5. WB2624

    WB2624 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    20
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    No problem at all with Superb's injectors or steaming - I know because I was there. There was, however, only just enough water capacity to go from Welshpool to Llanfair when single headed due to the vacuum ejector using a lot of it!
     
    lynbarn, andrewshimmin and Richieboy like this.
  6. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    11,346
    Likes Received:
    10,811
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Not being familiar with the finer points of vacuum ejectors ..... is Superb's notably thirsty, or is that more a function of a water capacity inadequate for a far more demanding line than the loco was built for?
     
  7. Richieboy

    Richieboy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    33
    I can support that 100%, she is a cracking little machine and performed really well. The double heading with Joan was absolutely brilliant fun, with some encouragement she took more than her fair share of the load on one of the trips I did :) much to the delight of the SKLR rep with us.

    You just have to remember that she is essentially a slightly smaller version of Joan (as Joan is a bit of a hybrid design with larger boiler and longer tanks as well) and broadly Joan is the lightest capacity of any W&L main fleet locos as well.

    Ejectors as a rule use quite a lot of water, so that combined with the smaller tanks on Superb, she it just a bit tight by the time you get back. It should be said that it is manageable, as mentioned above
     
    MuzTrem, andrewshimmin, ragl and 3 others like this.
  8. Richieboy

    Richieboy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    33
    Ah, injectors on Bayer’s, could write a book on that!

    Essentially they were rebuilt with Western 8mm injectors on both sides, which required a little and often principle, and a general rule not to put one on and take your hand off the steam valve!

    During the late 90’s / early 00’s both loco’s had smaller injectors fitted to the fireman’s side (822 a 5mm and 823 a 6mm) and now 822 has been rebuilt with what I think are 6mm on both sides.

    The modifications were broadly to ease the thermal shock on the boiler as well as making the fireman’s job a bit easier, with a bit more room for error.

    (I should caveat that with it’s all off the top of my head, so don’t quote me on the numbers!)
     
  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    23,518
    Likes Received:
    47,043
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Can't talk specifically about the W&LLR, but the general issue with peripherals like vacuum ejectors is that the usage is generally related to the size of train, not of the loco itself. So imagine you use 50 gallons for a round trip to run the ejector: if you have a 4,000 gallon tender behind you, that is basically irrelevant. But if you have a 500 gallon tanks, you are using 10% of your supply just to run the brake, and it suddenly becomes very significant.

    With water capacity in general, people often seem to assume it is all just proportional - 1000 gallons gets you twice as far as 500 gallons, for example. But it doesn't quite work like that, because you have issues like what you perceive to be a safe reserve. If you have a 500 gallon loco and want to have 100 gallons in reserve, you have 400 useable gallons. Increase the tanks to 600 gallons and you have 500 useable gallons, i.e. a 20% increase in tank capacity gives you a 25% increase in useable water capacity.

    On injectors (and water capacity). On the Bluebell, one of the significant differences between "Fenchurch" and a P class - otherwise ostensibly similar capacity locos - was that on Fenchurch, the injector was oversized and could fill the boiler quicker than you could use steam. On a P class, the other way round, the injector couldn't keep up with peak steam demand. The practical impact of that was that on a P class, you could generally turn the injector on and leave it, using descents when the driver shut off to recover water level (and the second injector if needed). On Fenchurch you were constantly putting the injector on and off. With a fiddly injector though, you would frequently waste a few gallons doing so: if you wasted two gallons every time you put the injector on and put it on 15 times on a journey, the 30 gallons wasted was materially significant against the small tank capacity! In practice, many people used a non-standard operating technique that required co-ordination (and seemingly use of your third hand -- you do have three hands, right?) but it is just an example of the kinds of factors that use water in a non-obvious way that become significant on small locos, but largely irrelevant on big ones.

    Tom
     
  10. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    11,346
    Likes Received:
    10,811
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Thanks Tom and @Richieboy I'm feeling as if a couple of other long standing issues have been addressed there. One is why the 'P' and 'A1/A1x' were regarded so differently (and why the reputation of Mr Wainwrights's little locos has improved in preservation) .... the other being why, other than straightforward coal consumption, Corris managements were so keen to avoid excess weight (specifically carriages).
     
  11. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    6,927
    Likes Received:
    4,246
    I've just been looking at https://wllr.org.uk/timetables/
    Can someone please explain the one hour and two hour trips? Do they go different distances or what?
     
  12. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    11,346
    Likes Received:
    10,811
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The W&L website seems to be sulking this evening. My guess would be Castle & return (or Sylfaen .... which just got it's loop back) for the 1hr trip, Raven Sq (possibly with a walkabout layover) & return for the 2hr

    Edit: Their website just came back to life. Ihr trip, Llanfair to Castle & return. 2hr, Llanfair to Raven Sq & return. Mentions having time to watch the loco run round at Welshpool. Both feature bolt-on catering and first class options.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  13. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,894
    Likes Received:
    1,631
    Location:
    Powys
    Make sure you book ahead if you are planning a trip from Welshpool. I called into the shop today and all services were fully booked. Staff were advising you may have better luck commencing your trip from Llanfair C, if you turn up on the day without booking.
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  14. ross

    ross Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    997
    Likes Received:
    2,461
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Titfield
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Do the whole thing, Llanfair to Raven Square and back- there really isn't a section that isn't worth it. The quiet bits have some lovely scenery, and the loud bits....
     
  15. tony51

    tony51 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    241
    Gala tickets are now on sale, including Premier hauled trains for a £5 supplement. And yes, it is going to Welshpool!

    https://wllr.digitickets.co.uk/category/42177

    Premier Passenger Timetable:

    Friday: 13:55 (LLA-CAS), 16:00 (LLA-WPL)

    Saturday: 12:35 (LLA-CAS), 15:25 (LLA-CAS), 17:55 (LLA-WPL)

    Sunday: 12:55 (LLA-CAS), 15:35 (LLA-WPL, Double Headed)
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  16. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    116
    OK. booked my gala tkt. Is there a shuttle bus from Welshpool main line on sunday 4th
     
  17. tony51

    tony51 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    241
    The full gala working timetable is now online, and the last page shows the shuttle bus connections.

    https://wllr.org.uk/annual-gala-2022/
     
  18. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    116
    Thank you Tony. Just a little disappointed that there is no shuttle bus from Welshpool(NR) to Raven Sq on the Sunday. One can see that Saturday is going to be the busiest day which i think is why some would tend to avoid it(including me). Also encouraging punters to arrive other than by car has to be considered. No? My 78yrs old knees are going to be moaning as i walk that long mile!
     
  19. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    11,346
    Likes Received:
    10,811
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    May be helpful:
    https://directory.walesonline.co.uk/search/welshpool,powys/taxis
     
  20. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    11,346
    Likes Received:
    10,811
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Among lots of other shots, this clip contains an interesting aerial shot of Raven Square during the Beyer Bash. What caught my eye is just how compact the IMR 'small' 2-4-0T Fenella is when compared with the two 'home' bruisers. The survival of both designs on their original stamping grounds is a grand testament to the quality of Beyer Peacock's drawing office. The clip is an entry for 17th August, s scroll down a wee bit:

    https://m.facebook.com/pg/WelshpoolSteamRailway/posts/
     
    andrewshimmin and Bluenosejohn like this.

Share This Page