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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. michaelh

    michaelh Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps many of us just want to get back to our favourite railway and our fellow volunteers.
     
  2. michaelh

    michaelh Well-Known Member

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    What are you smoking?
     
  3. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    The owl of Minerva flies at dusk...

    A few years back I was reading about plans during WW2 to fly a democratic politician out of a country which was Nazi aligned but not yet occupied. There was a plane waiting for him and two of his colleagues, waiting for a signal to come and get him.

    They waited and they waited.

    There were arguments about why he had not yet signalled, he always had one more thing to do, it was never the right time.

    Then there was an uprising by the local far right, one of his two colleagues was murdered in the uprising and the other narrowly escaped. The colleague who was murdered was perhaps the best and most able local politician. Although the uprising was stopped by the local military, the democratic politician was under police observation for the rest of the war, Greece fell and any opportunity of getting him out was lost. His party and the democratic movement was irreparably damaged.

    The country concerned never had an effective government in exile in London, and he gained the mistrust of the foreign office in London and in the years between the end of WW2 and Communism, there was a great deal of reluctance in London to help him in his battles with the Communists. His weakened party was unable to resist effectively.

    The Communists arrested him on trumped up charges, threw him in jail and he died there,

    Is there a point to this post? I would argue there is. History is full of people who waited too long or were always waiting for the perfect moment. It never came and an opportunity they did have was lost.

    I’d suggest that those involved with the WSR who do not like the direction of travel would be well advised not to keep waiting for the perfect moment because it may never come, and you’ll only realise the missed opportunities when it is too late.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
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  4. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Member

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    The potential hazards of token exchange for those involved are obvious, particularly where the signaller is standing at a different height from the footplate crew. Where there is no platform available, perhaps consideration ought to be given to the provision of balconies for use by signallers. I had better say , hurriedly, that the W.S.R. is in no way a particular sinner here but the contortions shown in this video should provoke thought.
     
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  5. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    :eek:

    Abermule!!!!!!!!
     
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  6. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Part of the furniture

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    I'm going from memory so hopefully I get this the right way round. When I joined the WSR it was the rear engine that carried the token. Around 2017 it was changed to the front engine. If memory serves it was because we were having so many trains in off the mainline it was felt that following modern lead engine practice was better to avoid confusion. It didn't work so it was swapped back to rear engine in the rules around 2018. I hope I've got the dates right, below is a photo of me taking the token on the rear engine when I was firing Braunton and this photo was taken 09/18.

    34046 1.jpg
     
  7. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Sorry, but I don't see the relevance. At Abermule the driver had the wrong tablet and he entered an occupied section. In the case at WN the two engines had the right staff+ticket and the section ahead was unoccupied, which is why - as signalman - I had possession of the staff obtained from the Up train.
     
  8. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

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    Puzzled.

    BA must surely have received Out of Section from you before being able to give you Line Clear. This must have been after the up train had arrived.

    Surely as soon as the "late-running up train" had arrived, the crews would have rejoined their steeds ready to proceed as soon as you had the Line Clear and could issue the ticket and staff?

    (Edit) or were the crews in absolutely no hurry to get anywhere, unlike Southern crews.
     
  9. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    The thing about Abermule was that the driver and fireman didn’t look at the token they had been given and proceeded on their way, if they had looked at the token they would have seen they had been given the wrong one. While everyone blames the staff at Abermule, the crew were also responsible.

    It is a good job that the section was unoccupied and that you had given them the right staff+ticket but the lessons of Abermule is that you shouldn’t assume that you’ve been given the right token/ticket.

    It seems a bit unprofessional and irresponsible for crews to dick around over things like tokens.
     
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  10. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

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    GWSR also has the lead loco carrying the token, the lead loco driver is also in charge of signals, braking, etc. I think this changed with the new rule book issued a year or two ago (it's only recently I've had to learn our rule book properly), which has some mutual authors with the WSR rule book I believe. Interesting they've now switched back.
     
  11. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member Friend

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    What about it? A prepack requires the agreement of the creditors, who are only likely to agree if they receive a cash offer better than they’d get from liquidation, or any other sale options. There are no equity options, since no creditor would be interested in taking part-ownership of a ‘non profit’ enterprise.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  12. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    Why did the lead engine require to carry a ticket and the train engine the staff? The norm certainly was the train engine carrying the staff, ticket or token, but usually the rules allowed for the lead engine carrying nothing, although they were expected to note that the train engine had caught the requisite authority ( easier said than done at speed) Most staff and ticket rules I've seen use the ticket to send a preceding train ahead of a separate train which later follows with the staff.... "The driver is authorised to travel between x and y having seen the staff for the section " .

    Was the ticket a note warning the driver of the lead engine or genuinely an authority to occupy the single line? If the latter that is I think unusual?

    Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
     
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  13. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    1. The BR and earlier rules for TS&T working were quite specific that, where there was more than one engine on a train, every engine except the last had to be shown the staff and given its own ticket. The last was given the staff unless there was yet another train to follow it, in which case it also got a ticket.

    2. The train crew were enjoying a welcome break and a nice of tea while waiting, not 'champing at the bit' to go :)

    3. It was all a bit of good-humoured banter - I would not call it 'dicking about'. I have no reason to suspect that the crew on the front engine did not check their ticket on boarding their engine and of course both drivers had already clearly seen that I had the correct (square, green) staff for them - I made sure of that.
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Definitely the norm for the lead loco to be given a ticket on a double headed train under train staff & ticket working. After many years, the NYMR have just given up with T.S.&T. and, as part of a rules revamp, have gone over to the big railway method of the lead loco carrying the token. It's been hard getting used to that.
     
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  15. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Why am I seeing so many parallels to 'Sunderland til I die' on here?
     
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  16. DragonHandler

    DragonHandler Well-Known Member

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    I've often thought that it's a shame they don't make occasional use the token exchange apparatus at Minehead at galas, it would be interesting to see it done. But I guess there are good reasons why it's not used.
     
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  17. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

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    For what it's worth the only time I have ever seen a token exchange go wrong was on a balcony specifically constructed for the purpose. No one was hurt or anything, it was just a bit embarrassing for those concerned, but nevertheless, I'm not convinced that a platform solves much that good training can't.
     
  18. ikcdab

    ikcdab Well-Known Member

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    Because a driver must never get into the habit of not having any token of authority in the cab. So in every case he must must have something.
    Paradoxically, when BA to MD was one train working, there were no tickets so this is what did happen. But then there were also two train staffs too....
    Ian Coleby
     
  19. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Member

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    But you now use EKT, so only one engine can carry the token. Which one - pilot or train engine - is another matter.
    BTW, does the WSR perpetuate the old GWR antic of adding assisting engines behind the booked train engine?
    Pat
     
  20. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Member

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    Sorry Alex but this is the sort of "it will make people careless" argument which was used against the provision of four wheel brakes on motor cars. The pictures say all that is necessary.
     

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