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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    I would suggest that everything does appear to be going well on the WSR, until one examines the most recent accounts of the WSR PLC.

    £ 1/2 million owed to the bank, everything morgaged up to the hilt, and precious little spent on the track to keep up with wear apart from a bit at Doniford.

    And the elephant in the room/accounts of 53808 and it's "provision" of some £230,000 becoming due next year.

    And not a note in the accounts as to how the WSR PLC proposes to fund the statutory ground it relied upon in the Notice to Quit over Washford or fund a climb down and buy out the SDRT assets at Washford namely the track and sheds.

    A very poor set of accounts, in my opinion, for what my opinion is worth.
     
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  2. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    One could repeat JJP's report to the recent accounts of the WSR PLC and that stated by the auditors...

    "a material uncertainty exists that may cast doubt on the company's ability to continue as a going concern".

    And that is notwithstanding the multitudinous other reservations and concerns I have with the accounts soon to be presented to the WSR PLC AGM for approval.
     
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  3. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    re :the question about this £230,000 what though if the WSR, say " We can't pay this, and we can't even think about starting any overhaul with in 2-3 years, what happens then, could the Trust commission another railway, say the MHR to overhaul the loco, and the trust take something, such as an Mk1 coach from the WSR PLC as full settlement of whats owed to it, and the host railway accepts this mk1 as part payment for the overhaul, Whats the market value of an operational Mk1 coach?
     
  4. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    Judging by the recent sales at Llangollen, around £30k.
     
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  5. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    so, that wouldn't work, then, i thought it would be more than that, personally speaking, if the trust were to pursue the PLC, for payment, if they were to renege on the agreement, does the PLC have anything like that amount in disposable Assets, might that also lead to the collapse of the PLC, Be fitting though if the group they threw out, because of rash temper tantrums, ended up deciding the future or not of the line.
     
  6. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    Without knowing the fine detail of the agreement, it sounds possible.
     
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  7. granmaree

    granmaree Member

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    https://find-and-update.company-inf.../01010188/charges/CplYaSecQLa73SyiemIxs25XjBQ
     
  8. Masterbrew

    Masterbrew New Member

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  9. WishIHadAName

    WishIHadAName New Member

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    And thanks for free use of the loco!
     
  10. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I can't see the trust agreeing to that, unless there was a new board in place, and persueing it would bring about the total collapse of the WSR,
    There would need to be some binding agreement legally drawn up and signed, with a payment schedule in place, just to walk away write off what had been agreed would be a very bitter taste indeed, and one that would drive yet another nail into the WSR'S hopes of surviving, as there would be zero good will towards the PLC, should that happen, it would also harden minds, against offering support for the current board,
     
  11. Masterbrew

    Masterbrew New Member

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    From what I gather (happy to be corrected if wrong) is that the 7F is under an agreement to 2035 hereby the WSR has use of the loco in exchange for the responsibility of overhauling and maintenance. If the liability of £230,000 is for past use of the loco, the S & D Trust would be entitled to try to claim it. My point was that if it were for the pending overhaul and the WSR does not have the money, the parties agreeing to rescind the remaining term of the contract would remove the financial liability to the WSR and return the loco to the Trust so that it can look at a future for it elsewhere.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2021
  12. Bayard

    Bayard Part of the furniture

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  13. gwilialan

    gwilialan Part of the furniture

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  14. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    the case of 53808 will be an interesting one , and one with implications for run and restore agreements on other railways .

    Railways of course can defer commencing that overhaul until the financial environment improves however the downside is the value received from running diminishes in comparison to the costs of overhaul as inflation pushes them only one way

    Clearly the owners of 53808 could decide that with all that has happened pursuing the railway for recourse is not worth it , option b would be a negotiated settlement that may well see some contribution from the owners and the worse case a full blown legal dispute which would cost considerable sums and would have profound implications for the losing party. I've discounted for now the railway accepting liability and honouring the agreement and clearly with such good trading that could become an option again
     
  15. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    basically if the assets are under a charge then yes ,
     
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  16. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

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    Lovely image Robin. But that looks suspiciously like the IOW in the background so is it not in the wrong railway thread?
     
  17. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Well-Known Member

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    The Plc accounts for the year ending March 2021 confirm that as of that date the Plc
    ( and hence the West Somerset Railway ) was in a parlous position.

    We ( those who wish to see the Railway survive ) have to hope the apparently good
    trading position recorded in June, July and August ( and hopefully September ) ,
    the encouraging bookings for Christmas events and donations/grants prove
    sufficient for the Plc to enter April 2022 as a ‘going concern’.

    I fail to see ( bearing in mind forum posters are adamant they want the WSR to
    survive ) what is the purpose of a continual outpouring ( of sniping, wild imaginings,
    and what ifs mixed with the products of Noddy’s visit to a Business School ) on this
    forum, other than to discourage support for the Railway.

    This is not a ‘cavalry’ posting: rather an expression of innate ‘sadness’

    Michael Rowe
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  18. nanstallon

    nanstallon Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. While I strongly disapprove of kicking the S&DRT out of Washford, I welcome any good news that improves the WSR's prospects. At times like this, we must 'back the home team'.
     
  19. jnc

    jnc Part of the furniture

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    Isn't that more or less what the WSR and SDRT agreed to do, about a year or so ago? That's why it's running on the MHR these days (earning money for its future overhaul), and not on the WSR (any more).

    Noel
     
  20. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    Partly Michael as we seem to flip flop from famine to feast and back again in double quick time . We need a million to save ourselves to how brilliant we have been trading that projected losses are now profits

    I've tended to find the simple nous of Noddy's business school very useful , if it looks like a debt, smells like a debt it almost certainly is a debt and that debt will need to be paid back

    I note your use of "was in parlous" so all is well and we don't need to worry about donating any more .Cracking
     
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