If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,421
    Likes Received:
    2,460
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I'm a simple soul. I read the table in post 41315 as showing a loss of £55K. I'd have thought an ongoing loss shows a worsening situation - i.e the hole they are in is getting deeper, mitigated only by raiding station funds and the seemingly one-off CRF grant
     
  2. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    16,685
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    Stogumber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
  3. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,413
    Likes Received:
    4,131
    Yes and no. Yes in the bigger picture it does, but, no in the sense of it would of been a bigger hole (I think that’s what they are getting at), then there is the unique style of WSR accounting….
     
    The Dainton Banker likes this.
  4. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    16,685
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    Stogumber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I have three simple questions for the WSR family.

    (1) Do you accept the proposition, put forward by Martin Brown when he was a WSR plc Director, that investment of £1M per year is required for the future of the WSR to be secured?

    (2) How is that to be generated?

    (3) If it is NOT generated, what is the future of the WSR?

    I see no sign of this being faced (let alone tackled) in the recent PDG minutes or elsewhere.

    Happy New Year.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
  5. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,518
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Perhaps there are better places to direct these questions, rather than simply stir up pro/anti-WSR feelings from the usual suspects in this forum?
     
    Snail368, WSR_6960, ikcdab and 3 others like this.
  6. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    18,947
    Likes Received:
    15,182
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Maybe, but if we're discussing whether news is good or bad, doing so in the context of what's previously been said about how good and bad might be defined isn't a bad thing.
     
  7. D1039

    D1039 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,707
    Likes Received:
    2,487
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The CRF3 application date was 30 September so Christmas services' financial performance might not have been the governing factor. The WSR was at the time though publicising its figures to the end of July (£149k loss) as being £268k ahead of budget, but I've no idea if that had any bearing either.

    As intimated in the meeting minutes the Emergency Resource Support programme has been reopened for Expressions of Interest until 18 January 2022 (minutes say 22nd). Those invited to apply will have until noon 3 February to submit a full application. The total budget for the reopened strand though will only be £5m https://www.heritagefund.org.uk/funding/culture-recovery-fund-emergency-resource.
     
  8. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    7,674
    Likes Received:
    5,823
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    These are the unanswered and unadressed questions.

    It woudl be perfectly possible for those in a position to do so to address them but they have elected not to do so.

    The WSR MAY be viable in the short term but I see no plan to make it so in the long term.

    While I like the length of run the WSR offers I now have a Swanage Railway season ticket and am very much enjoying my visits to Swanage, a line I think will survive
     
    Sunnieboy likes this.
  9. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,421
    Likes Received:
    2,460
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Well, the problem as I see it is that if the WSR needs £1M/year in grant money that is going to be a tall order to maintain, given that there are very few bodies outside HLF with that level of funding power. A lot will depend, too, on the creativity of their grant writing team in making their projects appear as though they are delivering what the grant awarding body wants delivered but whilst it isn't hard to think of projects, it is a lot harder to think of funders Moreover, HLF, for example, are not inclined to award money for some infrastructure renewal (e.g. track) although as the NYMR has demonstrated, they will help with major civil engineering projects such as bridges. There is some hope for the WSR that they might be able to get a carriage shed but I cannot see them getting money for routine relaying of track and that's what their most urgent need seems to be if they are to return to "red route" status. But if the track remains suitable for engines of lower weight, it is hardly arguable that lack of immediate replacement will be an existential threat.
     
  10. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    8,844
    Likes Received:
    6,341
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    A little deduction

    Christmas trains were £77000 and 3800 passengers , £20 a head . that leaves a balance of £194000 for the Christmas lights trains at £20 a head is some 9700 passengers . Running over roughly 19 days suggests around 500 passengers a day . I can't recall if it was more than one round trip

    19 days of steaming fees , one loco a day (?) at say £500 is £9500 . Coal at £200 and 3 tonnes a day = £11400 . Another £30k to cover other allocated and direct costs

    The profit isn't unfeasable and presumably other lines have similar profit margins

    That profit though will need to contribute to pay staff wages in the frugal Jan to Mar, Bills will continue to come in for heat and light, annual insurance , the normal running costs of the railway . christmas is often that time which helps carry a line to spring so in isolation whilst profit is positive it needs to be considered in the broader annual spend of a railway . It also implies that pre christmas the rest of the year had made a £250k loss and potentially a similar cash flow impact
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022
    35B likes this.
  11. Another Yorkshireman

    Another Yorkshireman Member Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    684
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Just thought it might be nice to acknowledge that the very useful surplus on the Christmas events - Santas and Moving Lights- owes much to the hard work put in by both the paid staff and a large number of volunteers. Well done to all those involved.
     
    mdewell, SebWelsh, Mike West and 5 others like this.
  12. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    3,358
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Does the WSR have many paid staff I thought it was announced some time back that most if not all had been made redundant?
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    10,889
    Likes Received:
    8,020
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Your base figures are reasonable but I fear you need a new calculator. 19 days @ £500/day is £9,500 according to my pencil and paper and coal @ £200/tonne and 3 tonnes/day is £11,400, giving a grand total of £20,900 operating cost.:)
     
  14. WSR_6960

    WSR_6960 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2018
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    212
    Location:
    Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Worth also noting that the Winterlights operation was handled exclusively by 7828 and 9351 which are WSR owned locomotives so there are no external costs to pay in this regard. I'll await comments about budgeting for future maintenance/overhauls which are valid but there are no fees to be paid to any external parties and the money stays within the organisation.

    Also, three tonnes of coal a day for what is essentially 8 miles of work plus steam heating ?! You can easily half the original estimate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
    Jamessquared likes this.
  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    22,823
    Likes Received:
    44,437
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I raised my eyebrow at the three tons of coal as well.

    Did the WSR run one train per day, or two? Also, had the loco run earlier in the day - eg on Santas - or was the lights train the only thing?

    Tom
     
  16. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    10,889
    Likes Received:
    8,020
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I’m obviously used to 3 tons/ day. Didn’t think it out of the ordinary. :)
     
  17. Ian Monkton

    Ian Monkton Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2011
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    971
    Location:
    South Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    There were various combinations of trains run depending on the date:
    1. Two Santa trains 40 miles,
    2. Two Winterlights trains 16 miles,
    3. Three Winterlights trains 24 miles,
    4. Two Santas and two Winterlights 56 miles,
    5. Two Santas and three Winterlights 64 miles.

    However, one day's running was covered by just one loco in steam, although of course the Winterlights were hauled uphill by the steam and back downhill by the Class 33 diesel so the steam loco was not powering on the downhill section, and there would have been hire fees payable for the diesel.
     
    Jamessquared likes this.
  18. Aberdare

    Aberdare New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2016
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    1,293
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Progress on tender T2061

    Much of the work done on our tender during December was rather uninteresting visually, it composed mostly of such tasks as seam welding, measuring and preparing CAD drawings, dressing off welds and drilling holes.

    Since then things have hotted up, material has been delivered and visual progress is evident so it's time for a few more photographs. We have also invited tenders for the internal shot blasting and coating of the tank. After all the effort to make a tender it would be a shame to let the work go to rust over the next couple of decades so we have prepared a rather strict specification for surface preparation and coating. Quotes received from reputable contractors are in line with our budget.

    One difficulty yet to be overcome is the supply of the profiled beading that runs around the edge of the tank. The genuine GWR beading is of a particular profile not normally available to the exact size, unfortunately even profiles that look similar are not available although lots of companies list them in their catalogues. At present we are exploring the possibility of having a batch of the correct section rolled, either in the UK or further afield. We have interest from other tender constructors which helps. The section involved is called "square edge convex bar" sized 1.25" x 0.5".

    Any way back to progress. We have finished all of the internal baffles except for the very front section of the longitudinal baffle which has to match the sloping coal space plate. The top plates are being made starting from the back and working forwards, those at the very back will be riveted, those within the coal space will be welded. there will also be rivets in the area of the footplate and toolboxes. The sloping coal space floor plate has been fabricated and trial fitted, this allows us to determine the exact size of the front section of the longitudinal baffle. The original dome fixing holes have been drilled along with the holes for the filler flange. The filler will be all new apart from the lid.

    Planning the work has suddenly become much more important to ensure that we do not forget some critical internal item that becomes difficult to access later. The operating shaft for the water level indicator is 8' 4" long and not easy to get in & out even with the top plate off so this has to be all made and proven prior to final fix of the top sheets.

    Andy.

    IMG_1993.JPG


    IMG_1996.JPG IMG_1998.JPG IMG_2001.JPG IMG_2002.JPG IMG_2003.JPG IMG_2005.JPG
     
  19. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,986
    Likes Received:
    2,248
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Rolls-Royce engineer
    Location:
    Bath Green Park / Mangotsfield
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    As a retired engineer I can appreciate the skill and hard work given to this project. Well done. <BJ>
     
  20. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    8,844
    Likes Received:
    6,341
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    Feel free to share your wisdom on coal consumption .
     

Share This Page