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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    One would think so. For context, my post (on the Mid-Hants thread) was responding to speculation on how the slip might affect the WSR financially. No-one can yet know
     
  2. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Is there anyone who can comment on the legal issues involved?

    Basically in general terms who is liable in these sorts of cases, the landowner where the slip originates or the individual parties?
     
  3. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    You'll probably find "it depends", based on lots of local legal, ownership, drainage and ownership issues.
     
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  4. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Depending upon what, if anything, the landowner has done to the ground, it mays imply be considered an act of God. These things can be the stuff of nightmares, not only in terms of where responsibility lies but in terms of access to carry out remedial works. For example, a railway may need access to the bottom of their embankment to rebuild the retaining wall or put in suitable drainage but the owners of the adjacent property may not agree to that access or works being carried out.
     
  5. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

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    There is already a law that says that you have the right to go on your neighbour's land to repair or maintain your property, subject to reasonable notice.
     
  6. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    Hopefully all the parties can negotiate a mutually acceptable solution. I’m not a lawyer but litigating for an order to compel an unwilling neighbour under the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992 is perhaps a last resort (time, cost, delay, future relations).
     
  7. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    I suspect that the involvement of Somerset County Council as the highways authority who I gather are not amused by the number of times the A358 has been blocked by mud - as well as being the WSR's landlords will probably be decisive
     
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  8. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    Interestingly, it seems I was the person who first reported the slip - or at least it’s consequences.

    I passed under Tribble Bridge at 03:20 on Tuesday 20 December on my way to catch the 04:03 Falcon coach from M5 Jn 25 to Bristol Airport to catch the ‘Redeye’ to Edinburgh to watch the passage of the GRA reform bill.

    I was fortunate to be driving my Land Rover which waded through the water, mud and general debris which had accumulated under the bridge. I had got through (and had been cautious in my approach given the appalling weather that night and Tribble as a known ‘trouble’ spot). But it was clear that conventional motorists might have difficulties. I pulled up just beyond the bridge to call it in.

    Plainly, I did not know the extent of the difficulty.

    The legal situation is far from simple and parties (and their insurers) are likely to take different views. It is likely that this will mean that parties will have to be (should be) guarded in what they say publicly.

    These problems at Tribble appear to have arisen only in the past 2-3 years which suggests a change in land use. Whether that implies liability remains to be seen.

    That in turn will not help fundraising (should the railway need to fundraise) and the unfortunate railway structure remains a barrier as ever.

    I find statements like ‘a full engineering assessment has been carried out’ doubtful given the short time that has elapsed and a worked-up plan for remedial action will no doubt take much time to create and implement. Standards for things like retaining walls and embankment slopes are rather different in 2023 than 1862.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2023
  9. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Robin,

    Thank you

    Coach to Edinburgh, you are a glutton for punishment.

    But thats helpful, certainly Somerset County Council have expressed their displeasure at the situation, however as the Highway Authority their legal position is no doubt different to the WSR's or the adjoining landowners
     
  10. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    Err, no. Plane to Edinburgh.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2023
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  11. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    My bad.
     
  12. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    The current map photo on GoogleMaps shows an interesting split in the lower part of the field above the bridge, coincidence?
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2023
  13. Colin Allcars

    Colin Allcars Member

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    WSR.Org shows ECS workings yesterday past the problem area with permission.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2023
  14. Aberdare

    Aberdare New Member

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    I can confirm that yesterday two empty coaching stock (ECS) trains moved from Bishops Lydeard to Minehead and one class 33 diesel from Bishops Lydeard to Williton. Locomotives on the ECS trains were 9351 and 7828, I was the driver of 9351.

    In the morning PW staff conducted line walks to inspect the line from BL to MD. In addition the site of the flooding and land slip was also inspected to confirm that there had been no further movement since consultants had previously inspected the site and confirmed that these trains could run. Following these inspections PW dept possessions were given up and the trains allowed to run. Firstly a class 33 from BL traversed the site at 10mph to confirm no movement, or disturbance of the soil on the face of the slip. This 33 then returned to BL.

    The procedure for the ECS trains was as follows:-

    First train departed BL headed by 9351 consisting of 6 x Mk1 and a PMV with the class 33 coupled in the rear. At tribble bridge the train slowed to 10mph, 9351 ceased hauling the train and the class 33 applied power to push the consist until 9351 was past the slip, once 9351 was clear of the slip it again took the load and hauled the consist and class 33 past the slip.

    At Crowcombe the class 33 was uncoupled and returned to BL, 9351 and train continued on to MD.

    The process was repeated for the second train except for the 33 staying on the back as far as Williton.

    Unfortunately I was on the opposite side of the locomotive so I was unable to sightsee the slip itself and cannot give you any first hand report. The WSR General Manager and PW staff were on site to observe the passing of the trains and my fireman did not express any concern over what he could see. I can report that a (very) considerable quantity of top soil has washed off the adjacent ploughed field onto the railway's property, and even more soil/undergrowth had washed up against the railway fence line resulting in the concrete fence posts, wires and undergrowth acting like a retaining wall with soil almost to the top of the posts in places over about 75 to 100 yards. On the approach to the slip site I saw no evidence that the "line and top" of the PW had been affected or that the cess or ballast shoulder on the side by the slip had been affected.

    Evidently the situation cannot be allowed to continue and preventative action will be needed.

    Andy.
     
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  15. Colin Allcars

    Colin Allcars Member

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    Thanks, Andy. Very informative.
     
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  16. Ian Monkton

    Ian Monkton Member

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  17. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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  18. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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  19. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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  20. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    I don't suppose that the heavier and longer trains went unnoticed in JJP original video.
     

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