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West Somerset Railway Operations

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Yes, but your line is so flat that if any assistance is needed, the guard can just get out and push ;)

    Tom
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    In fact, I'm surprised Paul Hitch isn't constantly posting that they don't need anything bigger than an 0-4-0 for normal services, only needing a bigger 0-6-0 when steam heat is required.
     
  3. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    Ah, but the problem is that they use these very heavy Mk1s, and in such long trains too...
     
  4. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    In 'Railway Adventure' Tom Rolt describes doing just that in the early days of the Tallylyn
     
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  5. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    I've been told length doesn't matter......;)
     
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  6. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    Fnar Fnar..............
     
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  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    ... except that if you have great length it attracts high maintenance ;)

    Tom
     
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  8. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    Its not keeping it under control that causes unexpected maintenance costs
     
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  9. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member Friend

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    Why would the WSR rule book not allow such assistance - in today's world it is a common enough occurance and it is not rocket science to produce the necessary operating policy if there is a need for it. It is no more unsafe than double heading a train.

    Peter
     
  10. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    That is what I thought and it definitely applies on the main line to operations by DB Cargo. But it appears that West Coast has a special dispensation to allow any accompanying diesel to assist when and where they choose. Make of that what you like. But I digress.
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    In times past, unless rescuing a disabled train you could only assist in the rear where it was authorised in the Sectional appendix. That seems to have changed but the Network Rail rulebook is confusing on the issue. TW1 'Preparation and Movement of Trains' states:
    15 Locomotive assisting in the rear of a train
    15.1 You must only assist a train in the rear where authorised in the Sectional Appendix. You must make sure that the assisting locomotive is always coupled to the train except where authorised in the Sectional Appendix......

    It then goes on to say
    16 Locomotives at both ends of the train or in tandem
    16.1 Trains with locomotives at both ends of the train. You can operate a train with powered locomotives at both ends of the train in the following circumstances.
    • When the rear locomotives are providing traction power.
    • When the rear locomotives are providing an electrical train supply only. You must make sure that the automatic brake is connected and operative throughout the train.
    Driver locomotive on rear: You must reach a clear understanding with the driver of the leading locomotive as to what is required before the journey or movement begins.
     
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  12. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member Friend

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    There you have it - what could be easier? Just because it is not in one company's operating procedures does not mean that it is not in others. No dispensation needed provided you have the necessary method of working. Most TOCs dont need it as they only operate multiple unit type trains and never touch loco hauled stuff. I've been on the NYMR for nearly 30 years now and assisting in the rear has always been a common method of operation there. Section 16.1 says all that needs to be said.

    Peter
     
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  13. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Well-Known Member

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    At various times recently WSR services have run with diesel rear assistance.

    An example that comes to mind occurred during the visit of Flying Scotsman. The noble
    lady slipped to a halt by MP170 on day two and thereafter was 'pushed' by a Crompton.
    The downside of this of course is that there are then two locos to 'run round' at each
    terminus.


    The special Timetable in force during the FS visit was such that there was sufficient
    time between scheduled set arrival and departure times for the requisite loco movements
    to be accomplished. This is not the case I submit wrt MD1 ie the Service to which the
    QB consist will be attached at Bishops Lydeard , which has a 'turn round' in practice
    of c 30 minutes at Minehead, often less, such that changing crews, running round and
    taking water is invariably a challenge (without the added challenge of running round
    a'diesel').

    It is for thesse reasons and concerns wrt limited non dining seating on the two
    important dep times ( ie 12.35 ex BL and 14.30 ex MD ) that the possibilities of
    using 53808 with a heavy train is arguably apposite ?

    Michael Rowe

    ps There is also a cost element. The raison d'etre for attaching the QB set to
    a scheduled service is presumably to save on haulage costs. ( The QB from
    published figures is currently at best a break even business.) The hire of a
    diesel from DEPG rightly involves a charge,
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
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  14. malcolm imps

    malcolm imps Member

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    Flying ? Scotsman at Eastcombe at a stand, being rescued by a real engine..... IMG_1504.JPG
     
  15. malcolm imps

    malcolm imps Member

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  16. malcolm imps

    malcolm imps Member

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  17. malcolm imps

    malcolm imps Member

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  18. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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  19. pgbffest

    pgbffest Member

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    So do London Underground when they operate steam specials with a Class 20 on the rear. It is allow to give a shove to get going (mainly to maintain the headway). It is all managed by risk and method statements
     
  20. DragonHandler

    DragonHandler Well-Known Member

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    When I worked in Victoria I used to often watch the steam specials depart, and for most of them the diesel at the back was clearly providing assistance and it wasn't always coupled either as I saw a few drop back once the special was under way.
     
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