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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    That was in the context of on-train facilities being relatively unimportant because passengers could always hop off at an intermediate stop to use the facilities on the platform. If you have an 8-coach train and four intermediate stops, a coachload of people isn't an unreasonable estimate, and much larger, I suspect, than could use the toilet within a typical 1-2 minute minimum dwell time.
     
  2. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Those of you who are critical of the Southern Gateway project have, I suspect, little grasp of the real world of heritage railway grant applications. You may feel that you need a carriage shed and a locomotive stabling point, but the chances of getting a grant explicitly for those are low to non-existent. You will have to apply for facilities that improve the visitor experience and somehow work what you actually want into the application almost as a by-product or afterthought - so embrace the Southern Gateway as a somewhat devious means to an end!
     
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  3. aldfort

    aldfort Well-Known Member

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    I would imagine that grant giving bodies have seen this dubious tactic employed more than once in the past and are more than wise to it by now.
     
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  4. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Fine, so long as the scheme stacks up in it's own right too.
     
  5. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Given the amounts being discussed, the most likely source of funds is the HLF, and their grant conditions are easily viewable online - so you can decide how you would demonstrate that a proposed scheme met their required outcomes for people, heritage and community. You can also search for comparable previous projects they have supported, though bear in mind that over the years they have developed their terms, so a project they funded in, say, 2010 may not be seen as suitable for funding in 2020.

    Also worth musing on how you would meet any match fund element: suffice to say, a seven figure grant is likely to require the host organisation putting in a substantial six figures of their own money. How would that be raised, and pace @Maunsell907, how probable is it that the rank and file members of the railway would rally round a multi-hundred thousand appeal for the Southern Gateway rather than, say, a similar sized appeal that had a more direct railway outcome, such as restoring Dinmore Manor? I'm not saying it can't be done, just that there would probably need to be a degree of soul searching about which scheme was most likely to engender the desired response in hard cash.

    Tom
     
  6. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Quite a bit has been said about traffic levels. Are the figures for 2016 available publicly by any chance please?

    PH
     
  7. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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  8. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

  9. mvpeters

    mvpeters Member

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    If the numbers could be made available & in a presentable format, t'would be interesting to see passenger counts by station & destination.
    I've always imagined that the vast majority of journeys start at BL, but perhaps not so. Someone reported that 40% originate at MD.
    So what are the major 'destinations'?
    I'll guess at BL to MD or WT, then DR & BA.
    I'll guess at MD to WT or DR. Probably a lot of MD-BL then jump on the next train back to somewhere.
    With Day Rovers prevalent it may be difficult to determine actual journeys, but I'll bet some of the front-line Volunteers can provide a pretty good assessment.
     
  10. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Member

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    I agree, locos are almost certainly a better fund raising bet amongst the 'rank and file members'. They are after all central for many of us to our interest.

    I suspect that many share my doubts over the Southern Gateway mega scheme; even if as I believe it is not a priority for the Railway, the funding thereof, particularly the match funding element, mitigates against it. The possibility of a new Southern terminal I suggested should not be considered unless annual pax numbers had reached 240K per annum i.e. c. £600K per annum in additional fare revenue from where we are to-day. I was not assuming rank and file donations but, as per the Minehead turntable, I think it could be funded from Plc revenue supported by share sales from both new and existing Shareholders.

    Reference the suggestion by someone that the 'Southern Gateway' concept might attract HLF funds that must be as ever with such schemes debatable. It appears to me that HLF project selection criteria vary from year to year according to past experiences, demand etc

    Williton however has Heritage artefacts, a restoration facility with apprentices, many volunteers, oppurtunities for establishing viewing galleries, etc etc. A working museum with teaching facilities including apprenticeships would have much to offer West Somerset and I think square with HLF selection criteria and also attract match funding.

    Michael Rowe
     
  11. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    That is absolutely so although "education" in its various forms has tended to be a constant.

    Incidentally the IOWSR is seeking to have the whole railway (i.e. not just the museum as such) registered as an accredited museum under the Arts Council scheme in order to facilitate future HLF. applications. This involves a lot of work across the whole organisation.

    PH
     
  12. Ian Monkton

    Ian Monkton Member

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    Mike,

    My experience of 12 years actually working on the trains agrees that your guesses are pretty accurate. Personally, I wouldn't put the MD originators quite as high - more like 30%.
     
  13. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    Some figures from a few years ago suggested that BL to MD was a 3:1 passenger ratio.

    All the stations make their contribution (I work hard to keep the Stogumber numbers up!) The other station which genetates significant originating 'traffic' is Watchet.

    Robin
     
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  14. mvpeters

    mvpeters Member

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    That makes sense & I want to assure you that I do my level best to support the Cream Tea trade.
    Watchet needs a signature dish - fudge? edit - or Watchet Marmalade?
    (Publication of the Gourmet's Guide to the WSR is delayed subject to more Quality Control volunteers needed).

    Christmas/Dunster/Snowdrop specials probably make a dent in the statistics too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  15. gwilialan

    gwilialan Well-Known Member

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    Si señor, mucho "gracias" :D
     
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  16. gwilialan

    gwilialan Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately I don't have sufficient knowledge of any of the sites to be able to make any meaningful comments. I am interesting in seeing what will be the outcome though. Will it be the cold commercial plan, the volunteers ideas, the personal preferences of 'higher-ups' or the 'pampering the customers' plans that will out? Will it be a mish-mash of bits of all of them or will it all come to nothing? Having some forward planning and aspirations helps keep people interested and motivated but those plans or aspirations need to be seen to be achievable to be believed. I've seen the cost figure of £20 million banded about on here, that seems an awful lot even for a railway the size of the WSR.

    Oh, and "Southern Gateway" ?...Yuk! Sounds like something from Disney (and its to the East, not South isn't it?)
     
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  17. Paul Whitehouse

    Paul Whitehouse New Member

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    Match funding for heritage railways is not all about money. You use volunteer hours rather than cash.

    Paul


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  18. gwilialan

    gwilialan Well-Known Member

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    Can you still do that? I thought that had all been stopped due to some organisations (not necessarily railways) 'stretching' the hours supposedly worked by the volunteers
     
  19. Paul Whitehouse

    Paul Whitehouse New Member

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    I've seen successful applications in the past but you may be right. On the other hand railways are probably better at counting hours than other organisations so might argue their case.


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  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Agreed - and recording hours set against a project is an important way to demonstrate input. You are unlikely to get away with a contribution solely in time though - not least because having a record of the number of donations to a project is a useful measure of the level of community support.

    Tom
     

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