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York triangle.

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Christopher125, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Member

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    Apparently Network Rail are looking at building a 'Rail Operating Centre and training facility' - right on top of the triangle used for turning loco's. If this means the Triangle is lost, what kind of impact are we talking about? I hope WCRC and DBS are making NR aware that it does still see use...

    Chris
     
  2. J Shuttleworth

    J Shuttleworth Well-Known Member

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    It would have to undergo the formal Network Change procedure (as it has several times in the past!) - we've all known about it for a while and already on the case.

    JS
     
  3. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Resident of Nat Pres

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    There is already construction work well under way on that site - the "parcels" sidings have been out of use for some time, leading to DRS locos stabling in platfomr 1 and I think WCRC diesels at the NRM. I understood that this work related to the new Control Centre, so I was somewhat surprised to see it as headline "news" in a local papaer today!

    Is the triangle out of use at present while the construction work is taking place?

    Steven
     
  4. Guest

    Guest New Member Account Suspended

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    There's half a dozen York arrivals left this year - so one must hope that the triangle is still available
     
  5. spindizzy

    spindizzy New Member

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    How difficult would it be to use the turntable in the museum to turn incoming charters?
     
  6. Anthony Coulls

    Anthony Coulls Member

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    Nigh on impossible in opening hours...
     
  7. 46236

    46236 Member

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    what about finding a spot for a turntable to replace the triangle, after all it does take up a lot of space.
     
  8. J Shuttleworth

    J Shuttleworth Well-Known Member

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    The triangle is not out of use - indeed, it was used every day during the SSE season and will continue to be used for steam loco turning, for the foreseeable future. The general site is, however, currently being used for access and assembly of trackwork, in conjuction with the Holgate remodelling project, which has been on-going for most of the latter half of this year and will provide a four-track southern approach into York station, releaving a serious bottleneck. The Parcels sdgs will be re-instated, on completion, although the connection, via the Parcels Spur, from P.11 onto the end of the turning triangle will not.

    The work you've seen is nothing to do with the proposed Control Centre.
     
  9. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Resident of Nat Pres

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    Thanks James - I nearly added "unless it is something to do with the Holgate Road 4 track work" but couldn't see how it could be - the assembly of compentents there hadn't occurred to me but it is about the nearest site where this would be possible without major disruption.

    Steven
     
  10. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Member

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  11. david1984

    david1984 Well-Known Member

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    A thought occured to me - if Network Rail are removing a facility frequently used by two of it's TOC's (WCRC & DBS), are they not obliged to provide a replacement facility as they are effectively proventing the said TOC's from carrying out their operations ?, charters to me NR see as a bit of a soft touch so they think they can get away with more with them than normal TOC's & FOC's, i suggest someone plays hardball with NR and reminds them the network is open access and they have as much right to use it.
     
  12. J Shuttleworth

    J Shuttleworth Well-Known Member

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    Don't worry, we're already dealing with it - as, no doubt, is DBS.

    JS
     
  13. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    I would have hoped that the various TOCs present a united front on matters like this, and not each make their own representations.
     
  14. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Member

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    Worryingly the NR website's network change section (here) has a reply from WCRC (and GBRf, angling for compensation) but nothing from DBS concerning this. I hope it hasnt slipped their attention...

    Chris
     
  15. Enterprise

    Enterprise Well-Known Member

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    It irritates me that all the documents have spelling or grammatical errors.
     
  16. Guest

    Guest New Member Account Suspended

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    What irritates me even more - and that as a former BR property man, is that this is straight out of the old Railtrack "sod the railway - lets have some property income" box.

    Equally - in an instance as important as this is to the national heritage, given NMSI, and the World tourist centre that is the City of York, what the hell do Network Rail think they are playing at? and why should only the rail industry have a right to be be heard? Network Change can have repercussions well outside the operational envelope.

    The barriers proposed for York station were beaten off by public hostility - lets see the same, or at least the triangle retained as the development is referred to as an "operational campus" with an occupation standard crossing for the occasions when traffic actually runs - thirty to fifty times per year in total.
     
  17. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Member

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    I wouldn't be too surprised if the East Coast Main Line weekday steam ban, if rigorously enforced (although am I right in believing that 60163 has broken it since September?), would play in Network Rail's favour, as it would automatically reduce the number of charter trains using this facility. I hope common sense prevails, as too many of these potentially (and currently) useful facilities have fallen prey to short-term gain. Take the former turntable at Perth as an example.
     
  18. david1984

    david1984 Well-Known Member

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    Perth i could probably just about get my head round as it was a derelict facility that saw barely any use, York on the other hand is probably one of the most frequently used turning facilities on the network as opposed to private lines/land.

    Im suprised if The NRM would allow loco's to be turned in the Great Hall as suggested above, if we forget about the people/ health and safety side of turning in opening hours, imagine the mess you'll make in a clean bright and airy musuem with a clagging dirty live steamer, and although Siemens/TPE or whoevers shed they'd have to back through to get access say they would be ok with it, it only takes a change of managment (as frequently happens where TOC's are involved) to have a change of heart and bugger that idea up.

    A Turntable in the South Yard or thereabouts seems the best option for all concerned, but is there any chance one could be made operational before time is called on the triangle ?.
     
  19. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    The suggestion that the turntable in the Great Hall could be used is farcical.
    Imagine this, Saturday/Sunday during the summer, tour arrives with a 3 to 4 hour turn round.
    Stock needs to be shunted out of the way, this can easily take 45 minutes, then the loco has to run through Siemens/TPE, doors off Hall opened and all the public moved to position of safely. 'Elf and' taking a great interest in this part.
    Turntable would always have to be kept clear, no exhibits in the way.
    Run loco in, even with the most careful fire management, there will be emissions spread over everyone.
    OK one bonus, public seeing turnerable in action.
    Run loco out to be serviced, but service is at the other end on the NRM.
    More time taken getting there.
    Finally get all sorted, loco goes to collect stock and gets back into platform late.........

    Sorry a real no brainer if ever there was one. :eek:hwell:
     
  20. DJH

    DJH New Member

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    Re: York triangle threat?

    Chris,

    Looking on the link I cannot see the replies mentioned.

    Overall though what is annoying is the fact, as Tbirdfrank has mentioned and as a civil engineer myself, such a facility network rail want could easily be built without removing the triangle. Buildings can also be multi-storey if the building needs to be a set dimension and straddle the triangle.

    Duncan
     

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