Bressingham/ELR/NRM Spin-off Discussion from 6100 Thread

Different Gladstone. To paraphrase the great Eric Morecambe, "it's got all the right wheels, but not necessarily in the right order..."

Tom

 

As a matter of interest, are the MoSI engines and stock now part of the National Collection, or do they fall under a separate heading?

 

Despite its name 'National Museums Merseyside' is not part of a national body although it does receive government funding. 'National Museum' is a status not an organisation.

 

Every day's a school day. So essentially Cecil Raikes and Lion are no more part of a 'national collection' than any other council owned loco, such as 73050 or Sutton or Mr. Therm?

 

The most recent 'Locomotives and rolling stock in the National Collection' listing I have in my files is 'Issue 3 dated 1st October 2014'. The only item of rolling stock at the MOSI listed as being part of the National Collection is the 1929 built replica of NOVELTY (1929-866). These lists are compiled by the Senior Curator - Rail Vehicle Collections and I am aware more recent versions do exist. Obtaining these though is akin to the oft used phrase concerning stones and blood. The NRM appears unwilling to have a pdf version accessible through its website, persisting with a very inaccurate 'Locomotives and Rolling Stock' section http://www.nrm.org.uk/OurCollection/LocomotivesAndRollingStock.aspx on its website which as far as I can establish is an excellent example of a government IT project that has gone badly wrong and no one appears to be able to correct.

Past dialogue with the Senior Curator - Rail Vehicle Collections revealed that merging of collections to form the National Collection has not in the past been a priority and consequentially miss-understandings have arisen as to what does and does not constitute the National Collection. The above mentioned NOVELTY is probably an example, as with a 1929-xxxx accession number this almost certainly was once part of the Science Museum collection. Not all railway rolling stock items in that collection passed over to the National Collection from 1975 onwards.

Merging the MOSI collection with the National Collection is probably something that should be done but is not considered a priority at present.

 

Cecil Raikes was, IIRC, on John Scholes' original list drawn up for BTC in the 50's. This list formed the basis of our present "National Collection" and Cecil was presented to the BTC by the NCB was is it not? At some point, the details of which I've never discovered, 'ownership' seems to have been transferred to the, then, Liverpool City Council - it was in the City Engineers depot by the mid 60's.
Surely some documentation must exist that details these changes of ownership. IMHO Cecil has been sadly neglected by its present 'custodians'
Ray.

 

Rubbish!..as the CME of the ELR at the time and perpetrator of such changes, the livery and name changes were made with the blessing of the Bressingham hierarchy, (not David Ward I might add).......do you honestly think they would have allowed such if they did not approve, I mean, come on![/QUOTE]

 

I apologise, Ian, but I read it somewhere, but at this passage of time, I've no idea where. Although the memory isn't what it was, it's pretty accurate on some things and this is one: I didn't make it up. As I said, certain sources worked on the usual journalistic approach of not letting the truth get in the way of a good story; I assume that was part of it.

To be fair, I did check - after the event, it's true - with a more reliable source and conceded the point. All I can say, once again, is apoligies for my misunderstanding.

 

Ian is correct with the above, no doubt about it. The loco (6233) was also temporary numbered & named 46247 "City of Liverpool" for a couple of hours too although some small technical / appearance differences between the loco's but it was a little bit of fun seeing both 46246 and 46247! Just realise that was 22 years ago next week and little did we realise that we would see 6233 back on the mainline at that time!

 

Some mock wooden smoke deflectors were made as I recall. Not sure where the name and number plates came from or where they are now.
As said before certainly don't recollect any discord about the initiative emanating from the Bressingham end, it was all very consensual.

 

Yes, mock wooden smoke deflectors were made. As for the numbers / nameplates - IR had them made for 46246 (aluminium numberplate and brass nameplate) and I had 46247 aluminium number plate and wooden mock nameplate made which I still have now. Along with some suitable tape and some black overlay's on some parts of loco, it looked convincing enough. But it was enjoyable, a bit of fun and was not to be taken too seriously either but all above board! May be I dig out the images sometime.

 

Cheers Doug, I acted as shunter and set a few rags alight for smoke effect from the chimney. Seem to remember one Manchester nameplate in the works office for a while ......

 

Didnt it pose as 46225 with 71000 at some point too?