If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Buffers of L.M.S. locomotives

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 240P15, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. 240P15

    240P15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,598
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Norway
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Hello!:)

    Some of the steam locomotives delivered to the L.M.S. had this characteristic oval- shaped buffers. Was it any particular reason for that, or was it just a sort of "design" especially for some engines?

    Kind regards

    Knut
     
  2. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    5,084
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Lecturer retired: Archivist of Stanier Mogul Fund
    Location:
    Wigan
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Generally it was because the long overhang and consequent high throw-over on tight curves could otherwise lead to buffer locking.
     
    Johnb, andrewshimmin and Bluenosejohn like this.
  3. daveannjon

    daveannjon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,059
    Likes Received:
    372
    Location:
    Waiting for the Right Away
    Interesting that 71000 had them but the Brits didn't, also you'd think if any loco was needing them it was the Thompson pacifics. They do look good though!

    Dave
     
  4. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    6,376
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lancs
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    70045 had oval buffers, but I think it was the only Brit to have them.
     
  5. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Messages:
    2,290
    Likes Received:
    1,672
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Van driver
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Yes it was, understand they were fitted after accident damage repairs. The locos which had them were Duchesses, Princesses, 4MT 2-6-4 tanks, all versions, Fowler, Fairbairn and Stanier, Duke of Gloucester and standard 2-6-4 tanks. Also, some GC locos, ROD 2-8-0s and a few others
     
    Bluenosejohn likes this.
  6. Eightpot

    Eightpot Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Messages:
    8,077
    Likes Received:
    2,264
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Engineer Emeritus
    Location:
    Aylesbury
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    More for show or one-upmanship, I suspect. German locos with as much or more overhang don't need them.
     
    Sir Nigel Gresley likes this.
  7. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    16,510
    Likes Received:
    7,753
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Class 40 diesels had them, Classes 44/5/6, with the same bogie design, didn't.
     
  8. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Messages:
    2,290
    Likes Received:
    1,672
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Van driver
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Yes also the three SR diesels 10201-3 didn't either. 31s, Deltics and the WR Hydraulics also had the oval buffers
     
  9. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,068
    Likes Received:
    5,165
    How much wider are oval buffers? Is the difference from round ones more in extra width or in smaller depth?
     
    Jamessquared likes this.
  10. Muzza

    Muzza New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    181
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Mareeba, Qld, Australia
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    What about No. 4 from the Island of Sodor?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    Jamessquared likes this.
  11. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    2,438
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Somewhere in the UK
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I was about to ask, what prototypes (if any) there were for rectangular ones!
     
    Jamessquared likes this.
  12. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    1,438
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Perhaps they we're pinched off Princess Anne ? , 71000 is technically Longer than a Brit, but the extra length is at the firebox end so it shouldn't throw over any different...
     
  13. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,027
    Likes Received:
    1,319
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Bus Driver
    Location:
    Loughton Essex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I'm sure I've seen them on modern freight wagons. Obtaining the width required for long wagons with increased end throw, without encroaching on the limited vertical clearances.
     
    Forestpines likes this.
  14. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,328
    Likes Received:
    11,666
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Have a look at a Class 68's buffers, I'm not sure what shape would describe them!
     
  15. CLN_WVR

    CLN_WVR Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    751
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hamsphire-Surrey border
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Thank you I have been racking my brains for where I'd seen those buffers (after reading this thread)
     
  16. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,351
    Likes Received:
    1,288
    Location:
    Swindon, England
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think it was to stop the buffers "locking" ie the buffer on one vehicle going past the one on the next vehicle (on sharp curves) so the two back faces ended up touching. I expect it was to do with length of locos, So for example an LMS Duchess may overhang more on a sharp bend than a shorter engine. The other way would have been to make the buffers themselves a larger diameter. There seems to be a big variation in the diameter of buffers. Wagons for example tend to have much smaller buffer diameters.

    Remember many coaches including Mark 1 also have oval buffers
     
  17. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,808
    Likes Received:
    946
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    How often have you seen a Duchess pulling a train tender first in BR days? Purely decorative.
     
  18. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    5,084
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Lecturer retired: Archivist of Stanier Mogul Fund
    Location:
    Wigan
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    You did see them behind a pilot engine, though. Not often, but it happened.

    6200/01 were completed with round headed buffers, but they were quickly changed for ovals. 6203 also ran for a short while with round buffers before conforming again to the norm.
     
    Bluenosejohn likes this.
  19. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    912
    Likes Received:
    928
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Does the H class on the Bluebell have larger buffers at the rear?
     
  20. 240P15

    240P15 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,598
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Norway
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Looking at a drawing of the "Duchess Class" (drawn by F.J.Roche), i find that the oval buffers has a width of 24".

    Some of the original G.W.R. engines, "Kings", Castles", Stars" etc) ,seems to have quite small diameter of their buffers. At least compared to those at the class 20 and class 73 Diesels!

    regards

    Knut :)
     

Share This Page