If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Manning Wardles "YEO" and "EXE" new-build

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Old Kent Biker, Aug 15, 2018.

  1. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,696
    Likes Received:
    5,502
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It would be good to see the website updated as I'm sure there has been progress since October....
     
  2. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,696
    Likes Received:
    5,502
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Well there have been no updates on the website, so I hope that the wait, for another month, will provide a suitable, pleasant, surprise.
     
    ross likes this.
  3. Penrhynfan

    Penrhynfan New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    96
    Gender:
    Male
    The Great Western SG 2-6-2 locos were known as "prairies". Was the same term ever used to describe the L&B Manning Wardles?
     
  4. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    16,510
    Likes Received:
    7,753
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It was a generic term for that wheel arrangement, one amongst many;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whyte_notation
     
  5. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    1,002
    Likes Received:
    2,477
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Titfield
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I believe the first 2-6-2's built in the US were for the CB&Q, a railroad which ran through the plains of Illinois, through Iowa, Nebraska, Wyoming and Montana- The prairie country, hence the nickname. These locomotives were built by Brooks Locomotive Works in 1900, so one of those great American innovations that the Brits had already been doing for some years.
    I believe the term came to these shores in WW1, when the War Department bought 100 rather nifty Alco 2-6-2 tank locos for use on the trench supply railways. These locomotives were found to be rather useful, able to run over the indifferent/poor/lightly laid/damaged track as ably in either direction, unlike the WD supplied 4-6-0's, 75 from Hunslet and 495 by Baldwin which, lacking a rear truck, had to be driven with some caution in reverse. Thus the term "prairie" was adopted as a term of esteem for surefooted and capable engines.
    The L&B M-W's predated those CB&Q locomotives by 3 years, and 20 years before the prairie nickname arrived with the Alco's
     
  6. brmp201

    brmp201 Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    558
    Likes Received:
    771
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Director
    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
  7. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Good solid progress. Interesting to note same approach to tyres .... or lack of .... taken with Lyn (and 1863 Mountaineer). Of interest, has the recent new build output from North Bay Railway Engineering Services followed this route?

    Question: Are the cylinder castings 'handed' on the MW locos?
     
  8. David Humphreys

    David Humphreys New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    306
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Managing Director
    Location:
    Boosbeck, Saltburn by the Sea
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer

    Yes for NBRES on a few of the locos. Blyth has Ringroller Tyres.
     
    30854 likes this.
  9. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    6,573
    Likes Received:
    3,951
    Occupation:
    Design Engineer
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Another question - once these wheels have worn out will they then be fitted with tyres - or to put it another way will replacing the wheels entirely be cheaper than going to tyres?
     
  10. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,430
    Likes Received:
    3,561
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    "...and of course saves the considerable expense of having separate steel tyres cast and machined. That can happen when the wheels have been re-profiled several times and is well into the future. The same logic may apply to the driving wheels on YEO & EXE as tyres are expensive to obtain at the present time."
    So it really is a case of whatever method is cost effective at that unspecified point in the future.
     
  11. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Slight difference, you have to suppose, between a Peppercorn A1 'doing the ton' on the mainline and an NG loco poodling around at <25mph. However, I do recall reading the speed limit on the original Southwold was even lower, at 16mph, so wondering why the design of new Blyth specified tyres. I'd emphasise this is literally no more than an idle musing, as it doesn't alter a jot what the marvellous achievement that beautiful little loco is. I wonder what new Gowrie's builders have in mind.?

    One possible contributory factor ..... I daresay we can all recall the problems the Swanage had in procuring tyres for their "mainline" DMUs, not so very long ago.

    Machining to the final profile from castings is usual practice in miniature engineering circles, with any apparent 'tyre' (certainly on 5in gauge locos) no more than the purely decorative product of a spot of lathe work ... usually.
     
  12. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,430
    Likes Received:
    3,561
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    E sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    A major source of locomotive tyres up until now has been from South Africa. I wonder what has closed down this option, whether it be the global hike in the cost of everything, or that the manufacturing capability is no longer available?
    The Patriot project, now that they have to go to the immense bother of having the driving wheels re-cast, are also going to require new tyres, as the originals cannot be re used, so it will be interesting to see how they source theirs.
    O/t, but I truly feel for them. The Unknown Warrior really has turned into The Undiluted Nightmare :(
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2022
  13. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,696
    Likes Received:
    5,502
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It is good to see that a lot of progress has been made on these two "New Builds".
     
    30854 likes this.
  14. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    824
    Likes Received:
    694
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cymru
    Let's hope they have more than a mile to run on when finished ...
     
  15. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    1,595
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thameslink territory
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    A lot of mainline stock has monobloc wheels now.

    It seems a hostage to fortune to me, if you have a very asymmetrically-curved railway, you could end up with one side needing constant reprofiling and a set of wheelsets down to scrap size rather quickly, even if the overall speed and power suggest not.

    My concern would be over work-hardening of the rim area (either preventing a new running surface being safely formed, creating dissimilar material issues within the casting, or preventing turning off enough to fit a tyre). I doubt there's any other method than trial and error to find out if you've guessed right.
     
  16. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,967
    Likes Received:
    5,064
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I don't think South Africa has ceased to be an option. I read it more as casting the wheel with a 'tyre' in place was cheaper than buying and transporting tyres from SA and then having them machined and fitted. The cost of transport/fuel must surely be a major factor here.
     
  17. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    That makes me wonder whether modern techniques now mean specific portions of such wheels can be selectively treated (i.e. at the rim/flange and at the boss, where the axle attaches)?
     
  18. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2019
    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    1,566
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Alton, Hants
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Monobloc wheels are, I believe, pressed off their axles and replaced when down to scrapping size.
    Did I imagine it, or is there a source of tyres in Germany?
    Pat
     
  19. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    1,595
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thameslink territory
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I would guess that Southwold will be a very small operator of locos[1] for some time. The risk of trying new technology for them outweighs any possible gain.
    [1] I know the L&B isn't Crewe, but they have more than one, and a longer line and a bigger active support base.[2]
    [2]which makes Blyth even more impressive
     
  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,103
    Likes Received:
    57,431
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Might be wrong, but I also had a feeling that tyres could be sourced from Germany, but only up to a certain size. I think you can get them up to the size of carriage wheels, but not e.g. the larger size needed for most locomotives, for which South Africa was the only supplier. (Accepting that Yeo and Exe have small wheels). Open to correction on that point.

    Tom
     

Share This Page