Modern traction, stuff like Sprinters, Pacers, Voyagers. In future will people want to preserve them

Disagree. The Class 31 Gala on the Nene Valley drew *huge* crowds and even on the days when just the Swedish Railcar was running it drew a goodly number of souls. There are heritage lines that are mostly diesel and they do remarkably well.

 

yes but the thing is the facility they are using was set up by the steam guys and they had no part in that. Second generation (for want of a better term) modern traction would fit in not at all on a steam railway as it never ran alongside steam, which a 31 did of course. I doubt many items will find a home on the steam lines.

 

Bit of a harsh comment that in my opinion. At the NNR (which is a "steam railway" as mentioned on this thread) we have a modest diesel/DMU fleet. I would argue that they do not "hang on the coat tails" of steam. What they do is double the frequency of service when we can't afford to run two steam engines, they operate a skeleton service when it's unviable to run any steam, they move everything around the yard almost every day and they get us out of the c**p when the steam loco inevitably fails in service (they are getting old these days). Steam will always be number one, but more modern stuff has its place in preservation.

If films only included lead actors and no extras, they wouldn't be very good films!

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would they be there is a steam railway hadn't been set up ?

 

In many cases, no. In many cases, yes. I know of a lot of railways who were set up to save "the line" not necessarily steam engines. The diesels came first, they operated happily for several years and hit a ceiling. The steam came in later and allowed them to grow further.

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can you list them? I'd bet none of the major players are in the list.

I'm not being derogatory about modern traction, by "on the coat-tails" I mean simply that on most lines there would not be a home for them if it weren't for a steam railway being set up. I don't beleive it will be possible to set up a railway for "second generation" stock so I wonder where they would find a home.

 

WSR??

 

I think this is the key. I consider units like early DMUs, class 31s, Deltics, class 45s etc as being virtually steam age ( they were made in the 1960s at the same time as steam was running) and they can be considered as "heritage", whereas something like a Sprinter isn't

To go back to the car analogy, turn up at the classic show in a Austin 7, Jag Mark 2, Ford Zodiac or something and it looks 'heritage'. If you come in a Ford Mondeo nobody will want to give it a second look.

 

Vulcan and Victor spring to my mind, with the dmu's being bought for the aborted services to Taunton, scuppered by the Unions.

 

Yes exactly what I as trying to convey. First generation stock snuck in by association but second generation won't be able to do so

 

I would agree with that. Harder to justify a 150 alongside a Standard 4 than it is a 101.

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I'd think that 142s will find a ready home/use on heritage railways with slowspeeds and big windows. Idela for looking at scnery and moving people on not yoo long journeys

 

Mid-Norfolk?

 

the only one I could think of. No doubt they'll weigh in with a home for some stock but really new venues need to be developed by the "modernistas"

 

Forgive me if I'm leaping to conclusions, but it sounds almost like you have a real hatred for modern rolling stock and don't want to see it anywhere you might go?

So where are these new homes to be (and don't say 'not my problem')? There's precious little left for it to go; no derelict lines, no areas of trackbed safe from developers.

 

All three of you are making the classic mistake of thinking about them from your 2017 point of view, not even attempting to look at things from the mindset of someone in 2067 or 2107. Which is precisely what I was trying to get people to avoid in the fourth post in this thread.

 

Not so, I was advocating the setting up of modern image railways rather than impinging on steam age set ups.

 

Everything goes through three distinct, chronological phases of human perception: 1. Current (desirable). 2. Outdated (undesirable). 3. Heritage (desirable)

If you want to continue the car analogy, in the 1970s Ford Capris were in category 1, in the 1990s they were in category 2, now they are in category 3. Another example is that, 15 years ago, you literally could not give 1970s 'CBS-era' Fender Stratocaster guitars away. They were regarded as a substandard, inferior product. Yet if you happen to have one now, you're looking at fetching around £2000 for it.

It is always wiser to take the longer term view than dismissing things in the short term.

 

In the 1920s steam was 'modern image'.

 

Ecclesbourne Valley?