LMS Hughes Crab 42859

It’s actually surprising how few SG locomotives are in locations unknown to the public - generally we seem to expect to know where they all are, even though we have no right to.

 

Hopefully one day the parts to form the rolling chassis will be re-united. What's needed is the establishment of dialogue with Jim Arkell first, and the establishment of somewhere where the parts can be stored or worked on - We all know space is at a premium, but surely there must be room for this locomotive on a railway somewhere? If the parts to restore the rolling chassis for locomotive and tender survive, I'd be more than happy to donate towards a new boiler if the opportunity arose.

Richard.

 

Esmond hoodwinked everyone for years including the BRB. The 01 was a lost cause and much lamented. Only the persistent diplomacy of a few individuals (one I knew very well) managed to persuade him to relinquish his secrets and release the 01 to the Bluebell where thankfully it is now splendidly restored. Not many secrets out there but there are a few no doubt.

I don't honestly know whether it still exists and I suspect nobody will for a long time at least. However it is very possible that there is a farmyard, barn or warehouse out there with some large lumps of rusty metal that are stamped 42859.

 

The tender was definitely scrapped. The scrap yard told me to my face when I pottered in and tried to buy it. My searches were after the article published in steam railway. At that time there was a chassis and the bits of the boiler mentioned.

As I say I can't prove what isn't there.

I can say that i found the o1 when that was missing.

 

Even if various bits still exist, their value is precisely what the scrap man would give for them. As far as the railways capable of rebuilding it, I doubt they would be interested if it was free.

 

At the time the 01 was missing it was quite common knowledge that the various parts of it were scattered between Kent and Cambridgeshire, as there was a high court judgement on it for rent arrears from the ill fated Ashford steam centre a 4DD unit was broken up on site as part payment, the biggest problem came trying to get Esmond Lewis to let it go to the bluebell railway for restoration, which he did, I believe and I stand to be corrected on this, one of the conditions it went to the Bluebell was that it never left the Railway when restored, Jamessquard will more than likely know if this is true or not.

 

I think one of his stipulations was that it should visit KESR (and possibly EKR too?) - as it’s already done... If you’re talking about permanently leaving I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there are conditions about not selling it on...


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In this months 'Steam Railway' magazine they're is a piece about the chassis moving to the East Lancs Railway. Although it does state it hasn't be acquired by them! Anyone know any more details?

 

The article doesn't say. The only info is that it's in Bury, but unsure who owns it now. But definitely not the east lancs railway.

 

This is one of those locmotives that has had a stronger-than-average emotional pull for me, although I can't explain why. I would love to have the opportunity to contribute to its restoration. On the face of it, it seems positive that the frames have moved to the East Lancs.

 

In the same way that 7229's time at the ELR has been positive for it?

 

I suspect you mean 7229, and isn't it inside now with work either underway or in the pipeline?

 

This is pure speculation, but given that the Crab is more or less an LMS tender frame without much of a loco, and there's an LMS loco at Bury without a tender, there may have been a neat solution agreed.

I have no idea if this is the case, but it would be a fairly elegant and efficient use of what remains.

EDIT: hang on, a quick look at wikipedia suggests I may be talking out of my hat, as the tender frames seem to be part of what's still under dispute.

 

Do you have a link to that plse?

 

This is what is says on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Hughes_Crab

42859 had been stored at RAF Binbrook in a dismantled state since 1995 whilst the owner undertook its restoration.[9][10]

However, in November 2012, after the driving wheels and tender frame were removed without the owner's permission,[11] an injunction was obtained to prevent any further removal of parts.[10] The driving wheels were later discovered by the police during a raid of a nearby industrial unit in an unrelated operation; the owner of the premises was served with a notice preventing the wheels' removal.[12] In June 2013, it was announced that the matter had been classified as a civil dispute by Lincolnshire Police and will have to be pursued through the courts.[13] The boiler and frames were removed from storage in Binbrook under police supervision and moved to a secret location.[14] Legal proceedings for the return of the wheels and tender frame are underway.[14] The boiler was subsequently cut up in a Nottingham scrapyard having been sold by the owner to pay for the costs of moving it from Binbrook.[15] The owner stated that the boiler was beyond economic repair and that he has retained sufficient parts to allow a replacement to be built.[15] The wheels remain at RAF Binbrook under a court order.

I would love to see the Engine restored. Hopefully bits appearing at the ELR will mean a more positive future for it.

 

I find it astonishing that this story rumbles on and on. What is there actually left that constitutes a locomotive?

I know we have a few Cinderella stories where a loco finally gets restored from what looks like a point of no return, but this whole sorry saga looks like you need a miracle of biblical proportions at this stage.

Usual caveats of wish the owner all the best, hope it gets the right support, etc etc - but it feels like a tragedy unfolding in incredibly slow motion. Three decades worth of slow motion.

 

Depends on how much is left whether its a tragedy or not. I suspect if the frames have moved there is somebody with renewed interest in this loco or what remains of it. If it was dismantled by it owner (or now possibly former owner?) then there maybe a container load of bits yet to emerge. If the wheel sets get released then it does become more viable as a project. This isn't another West Country that has popped up as there is only one other of these ever likely to run. As to the boiler? There is a production line of fireboxes running at the SDR and replacing boiler barrels is becoming common place. After looking at the Patriot this week it isn't a big game changer as it once was.

More locos are having massive reconstruction works carried out. Examples at Sheffield Park include the P class 27 new frames, cylinders, boiler made from knocking two knackers into one, new tanks, cab and bunker. Stowe and Sir Archie have both had new fireboxes, Camelot a new boiler barrel section, Fenchurch replacement wheelset, a whole new Brighton Atlantic and a reworked Standard class 2 tank. hopefully the Adams tank will follow on??

Don't really see why the 'lost' Crab is any different?

 

These are very recent developments and I haven't heard of much other progress from its Barry state. Maybe things are changing but the ELR does not have an inspiring record when it comes to overhauling/rebuilding locos.

 

Organisation, desire, support and - the most important thing - transparency.