If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

LMS Hughes Crab 42859

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by SpudUk, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,921
    Likes Received:
    1,240
    It’s actually surprising how few SG locomotives are in locations unknown to the public - generally we seem to expect to know where they all are, even though we have no right to.
     
  2. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    223
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Librarian
    Location:
    Halifax, but almost in Sowerby Bridge
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Hopefully one day the parts to form the rolling chassis will be re-united. What's needed is the establishment of dialogue with Jim Arkell first, and the establishment of somewhere where the parts can be stored or worked on - We all know space is at a premium, but surely there must be room for this locomotive on a railway somewhere? If the parts to restore the rolling chassis for locomotive and tender survive, I'd be more than happy to donate towards a new boiler if the opportunity arose.

    Richard.
     
    andalfi1 likes this.
  3. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    375
    Occupation:
    Senior Finance Auditor
    Location:
    Kent
    Esmond hoodwinked everyone for years including the BRB. The 01 was a lost cause and much lamented. Only the persistent diplomacy of a few individuals (one I knew very well) managed to persuade him to relinquish his secrets and release the 01 to the Bluebell where thankfully it is now splendidly restored. Not many secrets out there but there are a few no doubt.

    I don't honestly know whether it still exists and I suspect nobody will for a long time at least. However it is very possible that there is a farmyard, barn or warehouse out there with some large lumps of rusty metal that are stamped 42859.
     
    Richard Roper likes this.
  4. 43729

    43729 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    98
    The tender was definitely scrapped. The scrap yard told me to my face when I pottered in and tried to buy it. My searches were after the article published in steam railway. At that time there was a chassis and the bits of the boiler mentioned.

    As I say I can't prove what isn't there.

    I can say that i found the o1 when that was missing.
     
    TonyMay likes this.
  5. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    664
    Location:
    On Holiday!
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Even if various bits still exist, their value is precisely what the scrap man would give for them. As far as the railways capable of rebuilding it, I doubt they would be interested if it was free.
     
  6. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,641
    Likes Received:
    333
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    34040
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    At the time the 01 was missing it was quite common knowledge that the various parts of it were scattered between Kent and Cambridgeshire, as there was a high court judgement on it for rent arrears from the ill fated Ashford steam centre a 4DD unit was broken up on site as part payment, the biggest problem came trying to get Esmond Lewis to let it go to the bluebell railway for restoration, which he did, I believe and I stand to be corrected on this, one of the conditions it went to the Bluebell was that it never left the Railway when restored, Jamessquard will more than likely know if this is true or not.
     
  7. dan.lank

    dan.lank Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    233
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Haywards Heath
    I think one of his stipulations was that it should visit KESR (and possibly EKR too?) - as it’s already done... If you’re talking about permanently leaving I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there are conditions about not selling it on...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. bradley

    bradley New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    2
    In this months 'Steam Railway' magazine they're is a piece about the chassis moving to the East Lancs Railway. Although it does state it hasn't be acquired by them! Anyone know any more details?
     
    jnc and Gav106 like this.
  9. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,372
    Likes Received:
    1,480
    For use as spare parts or are there other plans?
     
  10. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,497
    Likes Received:
    1,207
    Location:
    Nantwich, Cheshire
    The article doesn't say. The only info is that it's in Bury, but unsure who owns it now. But definitely not the east lancs railway.
     
  11. Goldie

    Goldie New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    43
    This is one of those locmotives that has had a stronger-than-average emotional pull for me, although I can't explain why. I would love to have the opportunity to contribute to its restoration. On the face of it, it seems positive that the frames have moved to the East Lancs.
     
  12. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,763
    Likes Received:
    1,353
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    In the same way that 7229's time at the ELR has been positive for it?
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  13. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    9,033
    Likes Received:
    5,246
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I suspect you mean 7229, and isn't it inside now with work either underway or in the pipeline?
     
    26D_M likes this.
  14. DismalChips

    DismalChips Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    238
    Location:
    9A
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    This is pure speculation, but given that the Crab is more or less an LMS tender frame without much of a loco, and there's an LMS loco at Bury without a tender, there may have been a neat solution agreed.

    I have no idea if this is the case, but it would be a fairly elegant and efficient use of what remains.

    EDIT: hang on, a quick look at wikipedia suggests I may be talking out of my hat, as the tender frames seem to be part of what's still under dispute.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  15. Sheff

    Sheff Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    6,688
    Likes Received:
    1,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Do you have a link to that plse?
     
  16. toplight

    toplight Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    792
    Likes Received:
    606
    Location:
    Swindon, England
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    This is what is says on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Hughes_Crab

    42859 had been stored at RAF Binbrook in a dismantled state since 1995 whilst the owner undertook its restoration.[9][10]

    However, in November 2012, after the driving wheels and tender frame were removed without the owner's permission,[11] an injunction was obtained to prevent any further removal of parts.[10] The driving wheels were later discovered by the police during a raid of a nearby industrial unit in an unrelated operation; the owner of the premises was served with a notice preventing the wheels' removal.[12] In June 2013, it was announced that the matter had been classified as a civil dispute by Lincolnshire Police and will have to be pursued through the courts.[13] The boiler and frames were removed from storage in Binbrook under police supervision and moved to a secret location.[14] Legal proceedings for the return of the wheels and tender frame are underway.[14] The boiler was subsequently cut up in a Nottingham scrapyard having been sold by the owner to pay for the costs of moving it from Binbrook.[15] The owner stated that the boiler was beyond economic repair and that he has retained sufficient parts to allow a replacement to be built.[15] The wheels remain at RAF Binbrook under a court order.

    I would love to see the Engine restored. Hopefully bits appearing at the ELR will mean a more positive future for it.
     
    Johnme101 and Sheff like this.
  17. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    2,927
    Likes Received:
    3,287
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Apprentice Railway Engineer, Children's Author
    Location:
    Sidcup, Kent
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I find it astonishing that this story rumbles on and on. What is there actually left that constitutes a locomotive?

    I know we have a few Cinderella stories where a loco finally gets restored from what looks like a point of no return, but this whole sorry saga looks like you need a miracle of biblical proportions at this stage.

    Usual caveats of wish the owner all the best, hope it gets the right support, etc etc - but it feels like a tragedy unfolding in incredibly slow motion. Three decades worth of slow motion.
     
    2392, 35B, big.stu and 2 others like this.
  18. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    375
    Occupation:
    Senior Finance Auditor
    Location:
    Kent
    Depends on how much is left whether its a tragedy or not. I suspect if the frames have moved there is somebody with renewed interest in this loco or what remains of it. If it was dismantled by it owner (or now possibly former owner?) then there maybe a container load of bits yet to emerge. If the wheel sets get released then it does become more viable as a project. This isn't another West Country that has popped up as there is only one other of these ever likely to run. As to the boiler? There is a production line of fireboxes running at the SDR and replacing boiler barrels is becoming common place. After looking at the Patriot this week it isn't a big game changer as it once was.

    More locos are having massive reconstruction works carried out. Examples at Sheffield Park include the P class 27 new frames, cylinders, boiler made from knocking two knackers into one, new tanks, cab and bunker. Stowe and Sir Archie have both had new fireboxes, Camelot a new boiler barrel section, Fenchurch replacement wheelset, a whole new Brighton Atlantic and a reworked Standard class 2 tank. hopefully the Adams tank will follow on??

    Don't really see why the 'lost' Crab is any different?
     
    Johnme101, MattA, LMS2968 and 4 others like this.
  19. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,763
    Likes Received:
    1,353
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    These are very recent developments and I haven't heard of much other progress from its Barry state. Maybe things are changing but the ELR does not have an inspiring record when it comes to overhauling/rebuilding locos.
     
  20. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    2,927
    Likes Received:
    3,287
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Apprentice Railway Engineer, Children's Author
    Location:
    Sidcup, Kent
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Organisation, desire, support and - the most important thing - transparency.
     

Share This Page