Tornado

Wondering where Tornado will go to get fixed up. Going to take a few weeks minimum to have new parts made once its figured out what is required . I don't suppose the NVR will mind having such a high profile Guest in the Yard but don't know what kind of workshop/ space they have available. Crewe aren't taking on, NRM have SNG, Hopetown is full of P2 - everywhere seems pretty busy...

 

Mr Riley ?? Kiss and make up at 10A ??

 

Didn't she have her winter maintenance away from base (IIRC GCR?? could be entirely wroing), assume that she can possibly return there? NYMR would be relatively near base?

 

Locomotive Maintenance Services Limited, Loughborough

 

Ta - so I was at least slightly right!

 

From the photo of the broken bit you can clearly see the broken (top) end of the combination lever is Blue (somewhere around 290- 330 deg C [editied due to misreading as deg F), from which you can assume because it has got quite hot. After a little bit of online research suggests the melting point of bronze is about 900, which is considerably higher than what the rod appears to have got to, this temperature would however be sufficient to melt the whitemetal in the valve crosshead guide?, explaining the presence of metal fragments in the video taken at Peterborough. (Looking at the video again does the end of the radius rod look like it has been a bit warm too?)
To explain a little more what I think may have occurred, the pin in the combination lever that goes through the intermediate valve spindle has for whatever reason suffered some sort of lubrication failure which has resulted in said pin overheating and eventually seizing. As the combination lever would now be unable to swing, the force provided by the connecting rod and crosshead would be more than sufficient to break the lever and crosshead.

The reason I say what I have is because I have seen quite a few bent and broken bits of motion over the years but have only seen one that has overheated before, this was the result of a pin in what we call the combination link (or union link) seizing, the end result being a severely bent combination lever and a broken cross head.

 

The combi link didn't immediately fracture once it became constrained by the stuck valve. We know this because it is clearly bent in the pictures with a smooth fracture surface that appears to have necking also. Ergo, not a fast fracture for the combi link.

Bluing starts much lower than that.



The fragments, to me , look like thrashing damage, rather than white metal, which would have dripped out over the motion and below the viewpoint of the video further up the thread.

Im standing by the bending theory, leading to strain hardening, and fatigue fracture for the combi link.

 

The incident with Tornado is unfortunate as it seems to have been by chance that the 90 mph run with the public has been when the part failed. I do not think that the speed will have been an ultimate factor - although the increase in speed might have made the part fail a lot faster than if the engine was doing 75.

It shows a number of things;

1. That Tornado (like I have said before) might be new build, but is still a design operating with 1948 ish tech. Motion and everything else is running just has it has like older engines. The age of Tornado doesn't really come into it, as all engines fail, but what it does show is that Tornado at 90 failing is unfortunate as other engines still running today would have failed if the same set of circumstance befell them. Its also another reason why they too could also do 90 if they wanted, but its sad to see it happening on a 90mph run that Tornado's group had pushed for and justified their using their newer machine.

2. That the trust have moved fast to publish information and limit speculation. The statements put out are good by the trust as they have put out where they believe the cause to be, pending further investigation. The damage limitation to the idea and their image has been to offer compensation and explain cancelled events in the near future. While moving fast here has been good as it limits the speculation and thus controls the story, its been well executed to protect their brand. Its been a lesson in how to do it, but I don't think they need worry about the damage to their iconic place on the railway too much. They will get it fixed and return to run on a regular basis at 90mph.

This has been an unfortunate incident which has dealt Tornado a set back and valuable information and lessons to ensure future successful operation. I'm sure that Tornado and the trust here will soon be ready to resume further high speed running on a regular basis, as they continue to set new boundaries and push for maximum performance, profitability and efficiency in mainline steam operation.

 

From memory the machining for 60103 was done at Riley's, but lifting, fitting etc. was done at the NVR. There's a thread on it on this board.

There's lots of room out in the yard.

 

Yes Mr 55, but why hire in huge cranes everytime you want to lift something out...

 

I don't know whether it was related to the problem, but just wondering if the new middle cylinder cast for Blue Peter would be available, if required.

 

Now people really are getting carried away. The idea that an engine lift would be needed has no foundation in fact, but a replacement cylinder?

I suspect that the repairs will be carried out on the NVR. Unless there is serious damage to the valve chest, and even that would be limited to a replacement liner or, more likely, a rebore, I see little point in taking it elsewhere.

 

Seconded. I suspect at worst it’s a middle cylinder out task, but I feel it’s more likely a replaced liner and whatever parts got a beating in the ensuing drama post failure.

 

Heaven forbid that they should need it but the Middle Cylinder block from BluePeter isn't as wide because Tornado has 1 piece frames at the front end...

 

I agree. The NVR has pretty good facilities these days on the engineering front.

 

I think 90% of what is said on here has no basis in fact. The A1 Trust are updating the situation almost as quickly as it happens so why all the conjecture just wait.

 

Why let the facts get in the way of good old speculative dribble?

 

Good luck with that! You're not the first (or second or third etc.) to post such a plea. And at least this time we've learned a fair bit of useful stuff about the behaviour of certain steel grades at various temperatures.

 

I'd take it as a given it'll be done at the NVR! As our canned meat colleague has already stated, the NVR has pretty good engineering facilities; after all, Riley's saw no reason to move 60103 from there when it became an Accidental Atlantic...

I might pop down on Sunday for a look-see and Sunday lunch. Plus a certain bright green engine with yellow stripes is running.

Yes, I'd not seen that colour chart before...

 

I think at least 95% of what has been said on here has most certainly been based on the facts we have been told and have seen on video and photograph. Whilst I'll agree the idea of a cylinder block change is close to the realms of fantasy, everything else has been based on and extrapolated from evidence received. Terribly sorry if we're discussing your beloved loco in the manner of doctors discussing a sick person, but for those of us who actually carry out mechanical work on steam locos, failure modes and the results are of interest.

It's a steam engine, not a religion.