Flying Scotsman

Tagging an old thread rather than creating a new one - apologies if this has been done before and I've not found what I'm looking for :

From records I've found, Flying Scotsman acquired A4 Boiler 27971 (ex 60019) in 1978 which it carried until exchanged for an A3 pattern spare boiler which it carries currently. I believe that the A4 boiler previously carried was then sold onto Mr Hoskings at LSL Crewe as a spare for 60019 Bittern.

I've read conflicting information as to whether the A3 spare came from 60041 Salmon Trout or whether this was a myth and the spare was in fact an A4 pattern boiler?

The other piece of information I'm unclear on is what was the boiler carried by FS from 1963 to 1978 and what happened to it? Was this different to the current boiler or one and the same?

From what I've gleaned, the A4s currently carry the following boilers :
60007 - 27966
60008 - 29335
60009 - 29337
60010 - 27970
60019 - 29332
60022 - 27965

Many Thanks

 

Current boiler is 100% an A3 type and can be easily checked by observing the arrangement of the washout plugs on the side of the boiler in front of the cab. I believe it is indeed the original boiler carried between 1963 and 1978.

The A4 boiler I - think - was put on prior to the Australia trip and then not replaced until the NRM decided to overhaul the A3 one instead in 2005.

I have a copy of her engine card here and the boiler on her in 1962 was 27058 when sold to Alan Pegler.

 

Much appreciated.
Does the suggested connection to 60041 Salmon Trout's boiler therefore remain erroneous ? (I've seen elsewhere however cylinder spare used for FS from ST however??)

 

It could well have been fitted to ST at some point. I’ll check when home.

 

IIRC the boiler fitted to to 60103 when purchased by Pegler only lasted a few years, being replaced c. 1966 with the boiler from Salmon Trout which Pegler had already acquired as a spare. The A4 boiler ex-Bittern was acquired about this time, 60019 seeing out her last days in traffic with a different boiler. I assume the boiler Pegler originally acquired with 60103 was then scrapped. I could be wrong though, working entirely from memory here, I am in Wales so don't have my books to hand!

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That sounds about right.

 

The A4 boiler went on in 1977/78 when she was overhauled at Vickers in Barrow

https://www.nwemail.co.uk/features/...n-getting-flying-scotsman-back-in-full-steam/

 

Thank's all for your help - much appreciated
Boiler 27058 was fitted to FS 2/6/1962 previously having been used on 60037 Hyperion and it will have had this Boiler at point of withdrawal.
60041 Salmon Trout was withdrawn 17/1/63 and had boiler 27024 at this time - do we have confirmation that therefore current boiler running with FS is 27024?

 

Odd...I saw it in steam at St. Margaret's shed in 1965. I think you'll find withdrawal was December 1965.

 

Indeed that was my understanding. Salmon Trout being brought south "light engine" in steam to North Road [Darlington]. To be cannibalised for parts for the overhaul of 4472 at Mr Peglars' expense, with the remains scrapped. As a nod to the past as North Road was about to close they repainted the engine with apple green patches on the cylinders North Eastern style. As happened up until the early thirties.... One tale I've also heard is that Alan contacted North Road to ask about the scrap tyres, as they re-tyred the loco. As he'd planned to slice them up into small sections to be sold as paperweights, to help cover the costs. Unfortunately they'd already been scrapped

 

Apologies - yes you're correct, my error.
60041 is reported as being condemned from St Margaret's on 4/12/1965, scrapped at Arnott Young's Carmyle in September 1966 following removal of components at Cowlairs

17/1/1963 was when Diagram 94A boiler fitted (number 27024) at Doncaster

https://www.flickr.com/photos/113816008@N03/48684599591/in/dateposted-public/

 

Surely a chimney debate will follow? Single or double for Main Line operations? Not joking when I say that this debate has already started elsewhere

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Not a livery debate, an appearance debate. Single chimney, no deflectors, a representation of a typical A3 in the 30s but not strictly accurate for this particular loco. In current configuration, an historically meaningless hybrid .

 

I think Ian Riley wants to outshop "Scotsman" after the next overhaul like the picture below......
Who would notice the difference if the Scotsman nameplates were put on 44871?
Not the national press I guess as I remember that they published a great picture with a report about Scotsman visiting the West Country. 60103 was double heading with 44871. The picture that was used in the paper was of the Black Five with the caption "60103 Flying Scotsman" underneath. 60103 had been cropped out of the picture I guess the 44 part of the number confused the reporter!

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I’m not sure what point you are trying to make

 

Sorry John. I just went off on a tangent.

Regarding the A3's appearance:
I don't think that Joe public will be too bothered with the appearance and they seem to be the main audience for the A3 these days. As long as it has Flying Scotsman on the side of it they will generally be happy.
I remember going to see 46100 Royal Scot on a positioning move at Guildford a few years ago. A few people asked me what I was waiting for before 46100 arrived. I told them clearly Royal Scot. A couple of people then passed on to others that arrived later that Flying Scotsman was coming!!??
Even after 46100 had arrived with her fairly large nameplates I heard some folks talking on their phones exclaiming " I have just seen Flying Scotsman".
When I went to the excellent Flying Scotsman event at the MHR in 2020 I even heard some people saying that 76017 was Flying Scotsman!?

If she does run with a double chimney I wonder if the NRM would be up to running her with deflectors as pictured below:



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This would be my choice:

 

I did see something earlier about the NRM addressing speculation about the overhaul plans and that it was just speculation.

I'm fairly sure I remember being at York and waited for 5043 Earl of Mount Edgecombe to depart and I'm sure I heard someone refer to the loco as Flying Scotsman!

I did see earlier that Rail Advent had an article yesterday where they asked the NRM for confirmation on a livery change and the statement from the NRM about the speculation about the overhaul plans and that speculation was all it was (Trackside I think are the only magazine I've seen suggest a return to Apple Green is on the cards so far?).

Also if we do end up in the livery/condition debate, while I don't mind the loco remaining in current condition when she returns from overhaul, if the loco does return with a single chimney, I'd like to see the loco as No. E103 in Apple Green with British Railways lettering on the tender. I think it is the closest authentic look for the loco after becoming an A3 (with the Banjo dome rather than the taller one it had in post war LNER livery) and would match be a nice match with Tornado.

 

Railway preservation has an educational element and to restore something, railway or otherwise, back to a condition that none of the class ran in just seems wrong. The fact that Joe Public wouldn’t know the difference is irrelevant

 

If it's authentic that you're after:

Pat