LMS tenders

John Aspinall did try to make his later footplates at Horwich more crew-friendly, including stools, regulators designed to be operated from either position and seated, careful design of the height of fire doors, etc. Although apparently after the amalgamation LNW crews hated them.

 

I had reason to be pootling about on my bike at the weekend and found myself riding past Old Hall Farm in Bouth and noted a Stanier tender body on one of their low loaders, I know they do the engineering stuff for the RER but wasn't aware they were doing standard gauge stuff, any ideas of what/who said tender belongs to, from riding past at 20+mph it looked in reasonable nick albeit unpainted?

 

Was there any deviation from standard or are all the Later tenders 9t / 4000 gall. They always look a bit too small to me. having said that apart from the 8 wheelers so do LNER tenders

 

There were some 3500 gal Stanier tenders, the preserved 8F no 48624 runs with one. I believe they could cram a lot more than 9 tons on board for workings like the Crewe - Perth and the Water Ottoman - Carlisle freights. The latter were rostered for a Black 5 until the 9Fs came along.

 

The main reason for large tenders was to carry more water, which is a dead weight. The LMS long distance routes generally were well supplied with troughs, so there was no need to drag all that water around.

 

Yeah, it's because they didn't have any hills to make siting troughs awkward

Tom

 

Yes and making them higher rather than longer means locos fit on turntables so naturally they are how they are. Aesthetically though...

 

The one half way up Shap was not a success so they moved it Dillicar.

 

Weren't the ones at Luddenden Foot on the Calder Valley line on a slight gradient?

 

The 3500g tender (well, the tank) is actually behind 48305, not 48624. The tender was originally behind 45593 but was swapped with 45562’s 4000g one in October 1967, when 45593 was withdrawn and sold to Pat Whitehouse for preservation.

After 45562 was withdrawn from Normanton in November 1967, it arrived at Tyseley in January 1968 for removal of parts for spares. 45562’s remains were subsequently dispatched to Cashmores at Great Bridge for scrapping but the tender remained at Tyseley for many years and I remember seeing it stored on the coaling stage there.

The frames eventually ended up with a new BR1-style tank (and false Timken axle box covers!) for use with 73096. Roger Hibbert acquired the tank and mounted it a Fowler chassis for use with the 8F.

Pictures have previously appeared on NP of all three celebrity ‘Holbeck’ 5Xs in Tyseley roundhouse (45697 also went for scrapping at Great Bridge, via Tyseley) but I couldn’t find them, when I searched a few days ago.

JS

 

Thanks for the correction James. I didn’t know the full story of 8305s tender. I think the 3500 gal tenders were basically the Fowler chassis with a Stanier tank on top.

 

Whilst the other stuff is very interesting, I assume we have concluded that no one can address this query, bar the couple of intriguing suggestions I have had via PM, thanks to you know who you are!

 

Always a thrill as you approached a locoshed from the open end and could spot some of the larger 10 ton LMS tenders as this meant Pacifics

Liverpool Edge Hill was good for this, on 23 November 1963 producing Duchess of Hamilton, City of Edinburgh and City of Lancaster.

Edit: plus Duchess of Sutherland, so two of the preserved examples.
Dave

 

I'm fairly certain they were my photos, reproduced again, here. Jubilees were a major part of my early life and I left Leeds for Brum on the last weekend of West Riding Steam so was quite pleased when they followed me shortly afterwards, even if they were no longer to steam again. It stopped me from being homesick. It's a long time ago for the memory to be clear but I don't think 45593 was ever alongside 45562 & 45697 at Tyseley as it was being repainted into LMS livery in another part of the depot. 7029 was present, though. I used to visit almost weekly at that time. Always happy to be told I'm wrong, though.

 

At the time of Grouping, the exception was the Caledonian Railway, which had no troughs. So some of the larger Caledonian passenger engines had large bogie tenders, which I think had to carry enough coal & water for the 118 mile run from Carlisle to Stirling?

Presumably, the LMS must have installed troughs by 1927 when the Royal Scots arrived, fitted only with small Fowler tenders?

 

The LNWR was the first railway to install troughs back in Ramsbottom’s time

 

Which is why LNWR tenders were never above 3000 gallon capacity - the spacing on the LNWR main lines required nothing bigger. Problems arose post-Grouping when LNWR engines were sent to the Midland, which had troughs but spaced rather further apart, and that amount was no longer sufficient. The LMS bought many ex-ROD 2-8-0s at bargain prices - just for their higher capacity tenders, then either scrapping or reselling the engines alone to China

 

That's them! Did you take any more?

The last summer of the 5Xs is a fascinating period, within the final run-down of steam, probably because it was so well followed and documented and they went out with a bit of a hurrah. It was mainly why we took 45699 to Royston, via as many West Riding shed sites as we could, in 2017.

I can't say I have clear memories of them, other than, as 3 year-old, seeing 45593 come through Hathersage on a Middleton Railway Trust-organised rail tour in April 1967 (the return was with 'The Great Marquess').

JS

 

That was the Derbyshire Dawdler railtour of 22nd April 1967, which was one of the few railtours I ever did. Spent a few days at Neville Hill cleaning the Marquess beforehand. It was an interesting itinerary, leaving Leeds eastbound before diverting onto the Castleford branch through Allerton Bywater, (a place I was to become very familiar with in the next thirty years.). Then down to Sheffield Midland and through Dore & Totley to Chinley where we reversed before heading down the Midland to Derby. Time for a visit round the works before the train back to Leeds via the direct route. I'm surprised now to find that, although I have several of 45593, I didn't bother taking any of the Marquess.
Unfortunately I've only got one other slide of 45562 & 45697, taken on the same day, which was in March 1968. I've a couple of 45593 during its repaint, taken in January. Agfa colour slide film was 35/6d a roll which was a lot of beer money so was quite precious to an impoverished student. These are all in the loft and still unsorted from the day my two year old daughter decided it would be fun to tip them all out into pile on the carpet and that was forty years ago! I started to scan them but the enthusiasm waned.

 

Looking for any info on water feed system on Stainer tenders, evidently there were two types, conventional and debris box type? Thanks in anticipation.