7027 Thornbury Castle

If the sale has actually gone through, as seems to be, then the loco now legally belongs to the 4709 group, so it's up to them to decide about any new deal, without reference to Michael Gregory, the GCR, or anyone else besides the prospective new purchaser(s).

 

If anyone is going to build a new No.7 boiler, the first use for one must surely be on 4709. Building two, to have one for some other loco, would cost slightly less than twice as much, but not much less. What would be the rationale? After the 4700s, the GWR never built any 2-cylinder locos with boilers larger than No.1 until the one odd exception of the Counties, and those had a new design, No.15, partly inherited from the 8F design, not No. 7.

 

Judging by the comments I’ve seen here and elsewhere, I suspect that the purchase and proposed dismantling of 7027 may actually result in a loss of support.

 

My experience of him was that as a highly successful and charismatic businessman, he could be pretty ruthless in getting his own way. It used to be said that if you went into negotiations with him you should sit at a round table to prevent him cutting the corners off it!

 

Do they though? They appear to having a mad panic appeal to raise thousands of pounds.


…which, incidentally, also seems to confirm that the GWS’s attempt to disassociate themselves from the whole debacle lies somewhere between disingenuous and dishonest.


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Yet 5029, 5043, 5051 and 7029 have been here, there and everywhere, well away from GWR territory. Castles are much more gauge-friendly than a Hall or King. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

I think it is telling that having originally taken it on as an individual project JJP now wants to reacquire to form the basis of a group. That suggests to me another prolonged spell in limbo approaches, is that really folk want? Or are all the protesters on here suddenly going to dig their overalls out every weekend and put their hands in their pockets to the extent of a good few thousand each? Probably not, I suggest.

 

Here is another picture showing some more of the work carried out on the locomotive earlier this year.

 

Why is that telling?

As others have said circumstances change - both for organisations & individuals. I think most folk realise that to have any sensible future this loco needs to be owned and taken forward by a properly constituted incorporated group. The experience to set this up is on offer. What is needed is to secure the loco, transfer it into the new group and press on with looking after it and returning it to working order. There seems to be much support for doing just that including from JJP himself. Fundraising for a proper boiler, to the Swindon drawings, by 4709 can then proceed without any stain or bad feeling. 82045 demonstrate admirably that it IS possible do do things right (once!) and have attracted considerable support in doing so. Other new builds need to study why that has happened.

 

Suffice it to say that pleas for moral duty aren’t entirely convincing from that quarter.

Ultimately, he sold 7027 and has now found that the promises made at that time have been worth less than the paper they were written on. Unless he’s willing and able to buy it back, mention of a group seems a little washy.


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Interesting to note a post on Faceache claims Mike Gregory has died and it’s his daughter at the centre of this.

This has nearly as many plot twists as Snailbeach did!

 

From the February 2021 blog entry 4709’s First Cylinder cast satisfactorily at Boro Foundry — 4709 – The Ultimate British 2–8–0 :

"The new cylinder blocks have been redesigned and manufactured to bring the width and height within the current Network Rail Loading Gauge – essential for future mainline running and similar to the design adopted for 6024 - King Edward I."

The GWS Board decided in late 2019 to withdraw from mainline running. That, of course, should be that. But as I have alluded to in this post, there is a history within the GWS of certain people being unaccountable to the rest of the organisation, and doing as they please.

The 5'8" wheels would dictate a modern limit of 60mph, however there was already 60mph limit imposed on the engines by BR due to their instability at speed, so it's quite conceivable that they would be further restricted in the 21st century.

Ironically, the new cylinder block was designed to take a No.7 boiler, not a No.8, but no-doubt some bodgineering will come to the rescue.

 

It is telling, to me at least, that having been in a position of being sole owner he does not wish to revert to that position, probably because of the likely costs. I think this is a rather different situation to the 82045 group, who are recreating an example of an unrepresented class and moreover one that is likely to be an ideal engine for the 21st century Severn Valley Railway, rather than an eighth example of an already numerous class in preservation that is not suited to heritage railway needs. A better comparison would be Southern Locomotives with their Bulleid fleet - and experience there suggests that such an approach may be feasible, though I think it would be better for any such scheme to be associated with a heritage line.

 

I suspect you are correct.

 

Do we have to bring Snailbeach into it?! I’ll just throw Leader into it and we can discuss liveries later on.