Liverpool Road and the Ordsall Curve.

G O has given the go ahead for the Ordsal - Castlefield Curve

This may mean the end of Liverpool Road's main line connection after 180 years -

Fight Time folks??

As to the decision - Crazy - but hard sell by Network Rail and their consultants has won the day.

The Ardwick curve went into the too difficult box because there is a major signalling cubicle on the viaduct stub at Blind Lane - yes - really!!!

Take that obstacle out and replace the Blind Lane and Ashton Old Road spans and Voila!!! - Victoria and Piccadilly connected - with the stadium in between so a station could have been built there too.

Stalybridge and Huddersfield available via Guide Bridge or Phillips Park, and Rochdale and Bradford available via Phillips Park and Brewery.

Platforms A - D on the north side of the Piccadilly train shed and Robert is your mother's brother.

Ah - but this way think of all that loverly CPO work for the lawyers and surveyors too! to late for me though!

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Fight what? Its a shame that MOSI will lose much of their running line but its a small price to pay. No offence Frank, but i suspect your rather OTT analysis of the proposal and its alternatives is perhaps a little simplistic...

Chris

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Totally agree with Frank on this. Just one little delay in the now very busy section between Piccadilly and Castlefield Junction will throw train pathing into chaos.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Must say i agree with frank too.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

let see?
the 1st public railway in the world
the site of the oldies railway station in the world
stephensons irwell bridge (grade 1 listed)
2/3 of MOSI running line with Light Railway Order
planned expansion of the railway on the site when granada tv move out

ALL TO GO????

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

The significance of the listed structures:

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-502504-railway-bridge-over-river-irwell-to-form

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-457832-railway-bridge-over-river-irwell-to-form

Regards
Duncan

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Whilst I am of the opinion that the Network Rail scheme is ridiculous I have to criticise MOSI for not maintaining the Grade 1 bridge in a way that befits its status. Part of it is like a jungle.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

That is because land beyond Water Street Bridge is not actually owned by MOSI.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Who owns it then? Don't tell me the answer is Network Rail. They would have to apply to both Manchester and Salford Councils for listed building consent.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Obviously lots of advantages to the Ardwick route but airport trains would still have to cross the station throat, via Ordsall they don't. Also trains from Bradford would miss out Victoria if they turned left at Brewery Jc.
I imagine George Stephenson would have been totally unsentimental about his work being destroyed if it led to a better railway system.
Dave

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Any one got a link to these plans and the alternatives, for us not residing in the NW plse?

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

page 48 chapter 5.11.2 of this report detail the two options. Hopefully more detailed drawings will be published soon. other documents are on network rails's site under the manchester hub plans.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/documents/Projects/The%20Northern%20Hub/6485_Manchester%20Hub%20Rail%20Study.pdf

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Whats the objective of this curve ?

Is it to path Yorkshire-Manchester Airport services via Victoria to the thru platforms at Piccadilly without crossing all of Piccadilly ?.. isnt Deansgate-Piccadilly at capacity already ?

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

that part is not grade 1, also has very large holes in it thats why it is fenced off.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Which part is grade 1 please. I would expect groups like English Heritage to get involved in this.
After going through the details in the link posted above, it seems that the chord is part of a grand scheme stretching from Broadgreen in Liverpool to Marsden and Grindleford in Yorkshire. I agree with some of the plans, but some seem far-fetched. Of course money is mentioned, approx £600 million. For the chord to be viable, all the rest of the scheme would have to be done.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

The last sentence is the crux of the question. Without quadrupling Piccadilly to Eccles there is little benefit in the chord as Piccadilly to Eccles is already at capacity now.


The listed part is in essence what passengers travel on before Planet and its carriages reverse down onto the granada section ie the relatively straight section from the mainline connection to the start of the Liverpool Road Station buildings. (water st bridge not included)

Regards
Duncan

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

I can't see why there is this doctrinal problem with platforms A - D alongside the train shed - and 15 & 16 at Fairfield St. As has been said - quadrupling from Picc to Oxford Road isn't going to happen - or from Deansgate to Ordsall Lane - so where's the real operational benefit?

Picc - Vic via Eastlands with the links to Rochdale, Bradford and Leeds and the flexibility to work via Phillips Park and Guide Bridge is surely more valuable than a blind curve with all these problems. It links Victoria with south and east inter city connections at Piccadilly and allows Northern inter city workings to access and run through Piccadilly - albeit with a reversal - which would be necessary with Castlefield anyway.

Is it the "not invented here" syndrome

As for crossing the throat - working out of the north side of Piccadilly would allow crossovers all the way to Slade Lane for trains reversing at Piccadilliy

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

The last time I was at MOSI I found that the railway station had been changed out of all recognition. So much for preserving it!

How often is the connection to Network Rail actually used, I wonder.

Regards

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

The land is owned by 'Nikal Investments' who bought it and the land below the arches used as a car park with development in mind. The land below includes the remains of the stables for the shunting horses used on site at Liverpool Road and for deliveries. I presume these would also be lost or severely altered should the new line require substantial earthworks.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

On the arch issue the arches are also one of earliest examples of a skew arch bridge design. (Well I'm a civil engineer in training) Below are a few links for people to give a bit more in depth knowledge of the site. In the past a few volunteers including myself have thought about putting pen to paper and producing a guide of the structures on the site as something of interest to volunteer, visitor and enthusiast alike. One fact that may be of interest is of the 1/2 mile of track there is only 100 yards is at ground level. (It's why the inspection pit is where it is!)
http://www.engineering-timelines.com/scripts/engineeringItem.asp?id=594

The second link may be of greater interest:
http://www.culture.gov.uk/images/publications/WHAF_Birth_Railway_Age_appendicies.pdf

Regards
Duncan