The Steam Ban around York

There is of course another way. We are pretty laid back about steam and fire down here in't south. WCR can shift all their motive power down here to Southall, or the old yards at Feltham have not been built on, they could lay track there and reconnect to the main line (very handy as most steam out of Waterloo and Victoria passes the place).

I then have the juicy prospect of regular steam tours with Scots Guardsman, Galatea et al rumbling past my place or climbing round the Surrey Hills (no shap I grant you, but its handy for me)

As far as folks round York seeing steam, who cares - you can all stare at the cold dead examples in York Museum. (anyone cottoned on to the irony that is the administrative home of the national collection of steam locos, itself banned from seeing live steam!)

 

If anything it's probably simpler than many have suggested; Network Rail want to know what WCRC will do to avoid this happening again and WCRC for whatever reason fail to do so. If my memory of the ECML incident is correct then this wouldn't be the first time, perhaps as they feel they've done nothing wrong?

Chris

 

To think all this started...

around the time of one simple post..

https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/wizards-express-2-sat-12th-july.308589/#post-896277

The irony (indeed the acrimony) of this.. is there is no steam ban in the vicinity where the fire occurred..

Gargrave... ie. in the vicinity of the S&C.


There could always a be silver lining to all this.. if the compromise was that all steam services were followed by a diesel with a water carrier, it could serve dual purpose.. 1 to stop fires by following 5 minutes behind the train, 2 to provide water for the loco and 3... no need for a box on the back.

Other option is abandon York, and next year do Liverpool-Manchester-Blackpool instead ?

 

ADB--- I believe the LNE zone boundary is at Hellifield. Steam is banned at Gargrave.

Edit-- sorry I probably misunderstood. Gargrave --ban ; Hellifield 45231 operating comfortably on its own. It is ironic that the problem happened within five miles of the zone boundary. Interesting to speculate if it had happened five miles the other side.

 

Indeed if this ever came before a court judge it would be an interesting one for Network Rail to explain it's actions and rationale.

And how many rail tours have plied the S&C since the incident, and how many fires occurred ?

 

Problem is DBS have plenty of their own faults, which is precisely why WCRC have the overwhelming majority of the steam market, refusing to take most vac braked work and in recent times dropping customers at less than 24 hours notice when they realise they've accepted work they can't possibly resource or dropped it for something more profitable.

 

In fairness to DBS, they've recognised where they have come up short in the past, particularly in the area of resourcing trains, and rectified the causes of those issues. Unfortunately this does mean they will only take on a limited amount of steam work on top of the regular VSOE and Torbays but it does mean that pretty much everything that DBS have done since losing Steam Dreams has pretty much gone as it should. It's unlikely that DB could fill the hole left in the northeast as things stand at the moment.

 

Anyone know anything about the Access Disputes Committee that Railway Herald says the matter will go to? The word 'committee' makes me think it won't be quick.

Dave

 

This is the website of the access disputes committee via Google.
http://www.accessdisputesrail.org

Looks like a fairly independent organisation, but perhaps dealing with small scales issues, as I would have though anything as series as NR suspending a TOC operation would be arbitrated by ORR, as it would if NR suspended East Coast, because trains keep "puling the knitting down" - playing devils advocate here by the way.

"The Access Disputes Committee is responsible for the operation of the dispute resolution procedures that form part of all Access Agreements on the national network of Great Britain. Access Agreements, which can relate to Track, to Stations or to Maintenance Depots, define the contractual terms by which Train Operators (and others) can make use of those facilities. All of these contracts stipulate that, where the parties to the contract cannot agree on how it should be interpreted or applied, they must make use of one of a range of specified dispute resolution processes. The arrangements are set out in the Access Dispute Resolution Rules, which are an Annex to the Network Code".

 

wonder how this will pan out in 2015 for both the Scarborough Flyer & Scarborough Spa Express, as WCRC are already advertising it with steam for 2015
http://www.westcoastrailways.co.uk/scarborough-spa-express/scarborough-spa-express-details.cfm

 

Time for a move to another part of the country?
Manchester to Southport maybe?

 

Scarborough is an attractive destination as there is a turntable as well as one at York if needs be. Where would you turn a loco at Southport?

 

The triangle is still in place, whether serviceable, who knows.

 

This was once sorted in BR days for instance when the SVR was involved in main line running the locos applying for main line status would be worked hard under load in the dark to test the spark arresting properties of each loco and, based on the inspectors report the loco passed or failed.

Cheers Dave

 

Don't think York & Scarborough council will be pleased, after installing a turntable, and losing all that trade

 

Blackpool would be my suggestion, from Liverpool via Manchester, Bolton and Preston.

There's the option of a short trip from Blackpool to carry local holiday makers and earn some revenue in a turning move to Preston... ok it's all tender first but I doubt if the price was cheap enough any of the local tourist population would care... (After all they don't on preserved railways / tyseley's sunday jaunts)

 

Lets hope that NR and WCRC can sort all of this out. I hope they don't choose to play the blame game. The City of Scarborough is taking a big economic hit all because of this. Let us Recall that the 46233 was steaming to Scarborough on that day and 5972 had her incident and both of the locomotives got removed from their trains.

Also the tour behind Hogwart's had not been originally on RTC's schedule. It was added when the 5972 tour in June sold out. Sticking to the planned schedule would have been the right move. My opinion.

I also don't understand why more trips to York have been advertised at this point when we don't know what the situation will be. Staying off the ECML would be wise until this has been resolved. The Tour companies don't need more disappointed passengers.