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‘Fellsman’ 2019.

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Cal.N, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    Saphos Trains aren't very welcoming to timers. I asked but wasn't allowed to stand in a vestibule from Newport to Llanvihangel Summit on a Welsh Marches Express. In the Mk1 FO non-diner the carriage's centre vestibules have been given over to a high table and power point and are used for the tea and coffee jugs. In any case the tables are too high to see over to milepost. Back to the 10th, great to see what we used to see in the 1980s and 1990s in particular - the charge around Mallerstang to the summit. Frequently used to pick up 4-5mph, sometimes more. With 10A powered trains that's hardly ever seen these days, not even from the Scot and so far, BIL.
     
  2. 30567

    30567 Well-Known Member Friend

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    Of course for several years we had a diet of Black 5s and 5XPs which can't compete at that level, plus big restrictions at Ormside and I think Waitby when NR were doing the cuttings and more recently one at KS station. The run on 10 July had no restrictions apart from the line speed and nice dry conditions, it all fell just right. But I agree, it would be good to see what BIL and Tornado could do given their heads. Maybe this autumn.
     
  3. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    Ironically Tornado's fastest summit speed/time was on the 24th June 2010's Border Raider. 23 mins with a summit speed of 53 with 13 up when there was the long 20 tsr around Helm tunnel. Thundered over the summit that day.
     
  4. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    RTC/WCR train managers much more amenable then is that what you are saying.
    As for picking up speed around Mallerstang, why must they, only the timers might feel disappointed by this, no one else notices.
     
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  5. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    It's rather like the small number of passengers who might feel disappointed by being served a 'product' for dessert in dining rather than something that's home made.

    It takes all sorts and sadly the efforts of the crew on 70000 can only be enjoyed vicariously although the crew will know what they did and sometimes that's for them to savour. :)
     
  6. Mike Wylie

    Mike Wylie New Member

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    Indeed ;) The previous generation from Carlisle messrs Kane, Hodgson, Grierson, McCabe, Brown et al have set the bar out of reach. At the time the owners of the A2, 46229 and 71000 didn't seem to mind their locos being pushed.
     
  7. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    We were on that one - a memorable day for sure.
     
  8. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    So was I but that was when the A1ST was trying to break every record out there. Now they have broken their loco I suspect they are more circumspect and hold back a little.
     
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  9. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    You obviously didn't do the Carlisle to Shap runs this year.
     
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  10. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    In the eyes of some, 60163 suffers from not being 35028. ;)
     
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  11. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    Ah but Tornado is a true thoroughbred whereas Clan is more of a camel :)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
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  12. nige757

    nige757 Well-Known Member

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    My shot from the 10th of July was taken in between David's two shot at Aisgill and it was certainly something special.
     
  13. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    The Fellsman of 10 July was special but we must now conclude that no-one on board recorded just how special, or if they did they are not saying. Peter (@30567 post #120) suggested a possible scenario. On a showery Sunday afternoon, with nothing else to do, I decided to look at the run I was on (29 May) to see if there was anything that might be revealing.

    On the 29th May I was seated in the 9th coach; at the Appleby stop I was just before the north end of the platform. I passed MP275 5m 25s after starting from Appleby, Ais Gill Summit board (MP259.75) after 24m 26s and Garsdale SB (MP256.69) after 27m 37s. This gives 19m 01s (av. speed 48.1 mph) for MP275 to Ais Gill and 3m 11s (av. speed 57.6 mph) for Ais Gill to Garsdale. On the day the times on RTT produced 27m for the Appleby – Garsdale section (@30567 post #94). This was against an actual time of 27m 35s and this discrepancy highlights the major uncertainty – how does RTT get the times, if it is manual entry by the signallers then we are in the lap of the gods. If it is from the line side equipment then we might be in with a chance.

    Peter reported that the corresponding RTT time for 10 July was 24m; as the run was faster let’s assume a time of 24m on RTT equates to an actual time of 24m 30s. On the 29 May the run from Ais Gill to Garsdale was very quick and I doubt if it could be improved (within line limits) so let’s say 3m 10s. On the 29 May the run from Appleby to MP275 was 5m 25s (by a driver unfamiliar with the road and getting his first feel for the Brit and after some rain); typical (goodish) times with a Jubilee are around 4m 50/5s. Tony Jones can make ‘em go and I suspect 4m 30s would be achievable, so let’s go with that.

    For Appleby to Garsdale is 24m 30s overall, less 4m 30s (Appleby – MP275), less 3m 10s (Ais Gill – Garsdale) leaves 16m 50s for the 15.25 miles of the “Blue Riband” section. This would require an av. speed of 54.35 mph. Mike Wylie (post #94) calculated around 54 mph on the final half mile to the summit. On 18 May 2018 Graham (@ 1020 Shireman) recorded a time of 16m 54s with 35018; a superlative run.

    A lot of unknowns and assumptions, but with a couple of experienced loco men giving it a good go with an engine at the peak of her powers, I would say – possible and why was I not on it?
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
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  14. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Hardly. There is only one A1 and on a regular basis it demonstrates the excellence of the design. By contrast there are rather more MNs around and about with two on the main line. In a drag race between the two I'd probably bet on the MN for the first half a mile but over 10 miles I'd probably bet on the A1. Massive digression. Sorry about that.
     
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  15. Shoddy127

    Shoddy127 Member

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    Hmm, there must have been quite a spritely camel on the Torbay's back in 2018 then? That's before the Devon Banks even come into the equation.....

    Over 10 miles? I'd wager '28 OR '18 anyday!


    Are you bringing No.9 into the conversation now then too?
     
  16. Jontie

    Jontie New Member

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    Brilliant vid'. Thoroughly enjoyed it. I echo John's (60017) thoughts. Thank you very much.
     
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