100% Authenticity

Its these oddities on preserved railways that draw the crowds in, the two Deltics on the bluebell a couple of years ago is witness to that, preserved railways need this not authentic of coarse its not but at the end of the day its the mooler,dosh,money call it what you like that counts.

 

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but In Paul's Defence, I would not consider an Ivatt Tender Engine big chufferitis. It's still only a class 2, its tractive effort (even with the later Swindon series is still less than 20,000, and the tender only adds to fuel capacity, not power.
HOWEVER
Returning to your (Paul's) point of 'A Class 8 hauling 5 or 6 coaches on a modestly graded line is not what it was built to do' - What else should they do? Should all loco owners with locos above a certain size or power be forced to make their engines mainline or concentrate them on the few lines where coach lengths and gradients combine to come close to extending even the biggest of locos?
Take 35006 P&O for instance. The owners bought it in 1983 from Barry and moved it to Toddington. Why did they pick a Merchant Navy over something smaller and 'more appropriate'? Maybe 35006 was in better condition than any smaller loco. Maybe there weren't many suitable smaller locos. Maybe the group just wanted a Merchant, because that was one of their favourite designs of engine. They would have had good reasoning in selecting the engine they did and that choice should not be criticised.
They then moved it to Toddington for restoration. Why an old GW station in the middle of the Cotswolds and not something on former Southern Metals like the Mid Hants or Bluebell (Neither of which, I'm confident, would have seen regular Merchant running even in steam days, so there still isn't perfect authenticity there). Maybe they all lived in the area and wanted it at their local railway? Maybe because the railway was in its infancy it was able to offer more restoration space. Maybe they were ambitious about how quickly they could restore it. In any case, they would, again, have had good reasons to choose Toddington and that decision should not be criticised.
Fast forward 23 years to 2016 when P&O is about to enter traffic. On the basis of size and authenticity, should the owning group decide to move their engine elsewhere, risking harming what may well be an excellent relationship they have with one of Britain's premier preserved lines, especially one which can offer a good number of steaming days throughout the year? No. Should they be criticised for not having worked harder to earn more money to be able to spend more to put their loco on the mainline? No, I do not believe so. Should the GWSR, on the basis of size, kick out a locomotive they have quite possibly invested their own time, money and man power into returning to action, which they may have prioritised over other locos, given workshop space to over other locos, and one which is of a design which has not been seen running on UK Preserved Railways for the best part of a decade, thus offering it a little extra attraction, and instead sacrifice the opportunity to recoup some of the money they have put into it and give their volunteers the reward of seeing their hard work pay off? No. No party has done anything wrong in this situation, they have all made sensible decisions in the grand scheme of things, and have been able to look outside the narrow minded perception of "AAAAAHHH BIG SOUTHERN ENGINE GREAT WESTERN ROUTE AAAAAHHHH" that at times it seems you are shouting from the rooftops.
Please Paul, take your head out of the sand. Accept that there is more to a railway's decisions than the factors you champion. Broaden your mind and next time you see a big 8P loco on a preserved railway hauling 6 coaches at 25mph up a moderate gradient, don't grumble. Be thankful that the engine is running at all and isn't still a rusting heap of components sat in a linear scrapyard somewhere (Because we all know how you feel about those...)

 

I'm reminded of the porter at Buggleskelly: "you're wasting your time......"

 

50+ years after they were supposed to be extinct. Embrace and rejoice.

 

They are afterall, all just niche tourist attractions so they need to bring in the punters.

Maybe the IOW could have a similar diesel weekend. A deltic would look good.

Or perhaps the IOW could approach Mattel about developing a Thomas character. ‘Paul the Quixotic Reactionary Engine. The story of a small engine who lives on a island and spends his days in the yard telling the other engines what to do.

‘Hello Paul’ said Gordon the big engine. ‘The fat controller has asked me to run into the city to pick up some visitors to the island.’
‘Hmph’ said Paul, scowling, ‘ just another of the fat controller’s w.i.b.n schemes. It’ll never work, mark my words.’
‘There are lots of visitors’ said Gordon, ‘it is proving very popular’
‘Early days, it’ll never last’ grumbled Paul.

The guard blew his whistle. ‘Sorry Paul got to go. Enjoy your yard’ smiled Gordon as he puffed off.

At that point, Henry arrived tender first from the branch line.

‘’Hello Paul, did you see Gordon, he looked very good on those coaches that the fat controller picked up from the big island.’ Said Henry as he ran round ready to take his train back down the branch.

‘Hmph’ said Paul. ‘Totally unauthentic rolling stock. What is wrong with some Isle of sodor coaches like we have in my yard. A typical case of big chuffer. And on the subject of big chuffer, what are you doing on the branchline? You are an express engine. you should be running at 60 mph.’
‘Well’ said Henry, ‘it was me or no service at all. Edward is over 100 years old and needs a new boiler, while Thomas has been converted into an austerity tank on the big island.’

‘By the way’ said Henry as he declined to take water because he had such a big tender, ‘did you hear that the Skarlowye railway has been given permission to extend to connect up with us. we’ll be able to take lots of passengers to travel on the line, it will mean less cars in the beautiful valley. Won’t that be good. They are having a few problems though with the grumpy farmer and the miserable former actress.’

‘Bah,’ moaned Paul. ‘It won’t work. And railways which are just tourist attractions shouldn’t take priority over farmers and rich former actresses. They should take my lead in my yard. People keep on asking us to extend to the old pier, but I say no. It is completely unviable. In my yard we only have authentic sodor trucks and engines. No big engines here so you are banned Henry.’

At that point a lorry pulled up from the big island. It was Sidney the s160 and Ivan the ivatt.

‘Hello Paul,’ the big freight engine chimed in his American-polish accent (he’d lived a very long time on the big continent) ‘can we come and play in your yard with you?’

‘Yes of course’ beamed Paul.

‘Wtf,wtf, wtf, wtf’ chuffed Henry as he rolled away on the branchline.

 

Adams O2 rated Class 0 by BR, Ivatts rated Class 2. Since the former is more than adequate for the IoWSR, the latter seems like overkill to me and as for the class 4 rated Austerities....................
On on another thread you said that gricers often fail to see that others may have a point, I say “physician heal thyself”.
I’ve yet to see anyone on here in all seriousness criticise the IoWSR for having motive power that is too big/atypical for the line yet you regularly criticise others for doing just that. Are you really that curmudgeonly that you cannot rejoice in the rich vein of of heritage steam we have, irrespective of class and home railway?

 

Wrong thread.

 

The fat controller came over to Paul's yard with him were two suited men, they looked at paul, then at the original Isle of sodor coaches, We've kind of out grown then, explained the fat controller, and with the increase number of passengers, they are no longer useful their just taking up room now, The first suited man nodded, I will take them, its just what we need for our theme park railway can you repaint them, before we take them? Paul grinned, to himself, this railways got to big, its lost its purpose, Excuse me sir, he asked, whats this railway, is it frontier land, were everything's authentic? , no laughed the second suit, its's BOBO land, land of the clowns we will change your hooter for a siren give you a big red nose.

 

Excellently put, although as a matter of interest at the relaunch ceremony (or reopening day as the local paper would have it) it was said that it was picked for the name alone and "It wouldn't have mattered if it was a LMS coronation class or a B1, it was the name that was important." They were certainly overambitious in the restoration timescale, but it worked out in the end, it may not have stayed on the railway as it was in the mid '90s, but as it was it returned to service on the brink of us extending our trains to 8 coaches over a 15 mile run with regular running days throughout the week most of the year, which is about as good a use of a MN as you can get on a heritage railway.

 

I'm loving this, laughed out loud several times!

 

At last, every single preserved railway, no mater how big, or small started because a group of people said " wouldn't it be nice to save this engine, this coach, this section of a closed route The IOWSR was started by school kids saying we need to save an 02, And a coach or two, that in turn lead to why not run them, and where can we run them all classic wouldn't it be nice that has grown into a viable business, as regards authenticity new build, restored original, in many cases you cant tell them a part, Take Wootton station, no station existed on that part of the site, yet I challenge anyone to say it don't look right, in many cases stations have been rebuilt using reclaimed materials and again, in many cases whilst they may not be 100 percent authentic, they do look right, and that's what it should be about, recreating a sence of the past, a wagon don't have to be a 1930's build to carry a pregrouping livery as many were built will into the 1950's on an earlier design, also take some groups of engines, 263 for instance, it will have had changes from when it was built , but essentially looks like it was when built so whilst mechanically it may be a different beast from original, it still looks original enough to be able to carry its original SECR livery , where as W24, or any Island Terrier, can only carry an livery that it carried post its island modifications , 662, to me did not look right in Marsh Umber, because the bunker was the island pattern.

 

Of all the modifications applied to O2's post-transfer, tacking an original style bunker onto 'Calbourne' wouldn't be the most complex of surgery. The first few transfers ran with original bunkers until the extended shape was decided upon .... in LSWR livery and with their mainland numbers too.

Of interest, does anyone know whether the need for IoW freight locos ever threw up any Southern proposal to use the LSWR G6, rather thsn the E1's eventually settled on? I can't help thinking it would've made life easier for the workshops.

 

Perhaps the best example of compromise was Flying Scotsman. In LNER apple green and single chimney it was a fair representation of a typical A3 in 1930s condition but 4472 wasn't rebuilt as from A1 (A10) until 1947 and didn't get lefthand drive until 1954. I had no problem with that but add trough smoke deflectors and it represented a historically meaningless hybrid. It's the same with 45407 now masquerading as 45157 which isn't right as the latter was a short firebox loco and only ever had a domeless boiler.

 

Getting anything anywhere near authentic on the big railway must be nearly impossible but I have made an attempt by Photoshopping to represent an old colour print. Apart from the lack of line side telegraph poles ( I'm not sure but I don't think there were any here, the wires being fastened to the rockface) I can see four things that are incorrect on this one.

 

That's a tough one, I can only see the cable running along. Should there be some line-side fencing that has fallen by the wayside maybe?

Edit - there's probably some bits and bobs on the loco that shouldn't be there, but I haven't got the eye for that?

 

When did commonwealth bogies start being used on MK1's? Air brake equipment on the front buffer beam, hi intensity headlight

 

1961 so I don't see what's wrong with that on the face of it.

 

I was just wondering if it post dated the steam era, that's all, but 1961, when did BR change from the Ferret and dartboard ? and i'm assuming this is in the highlands, so would that era have seem stanier coaches in BR red, not MK1's ?

 

Overhead warning on the side of the firebox, coach numbers should be at the right hand end of the body, slightly to early for commonwealth bogies.

 

Air brakes hose and centre modern light. Also the lineside high stumps which would be missing as well.