1014 County of Glamorgan

It won't be a proper County ay 225psi and may become known as The Didcot Cannibal. The reason that the Counties were built was similar to other locomotive developments of the time. We were at the end of a weary war, in an austerity situation and all CMEs drew back from building more of the huge, complicated express locomotives of the 1930s (except that Ivatt slipped in a couple more Duchesses). They were already following the "power with simplicity but not so much speed" doctrine later enshrined by British Railways under Riddles. They were intended to be as powerful as the Castles but cheaper to run and maintain. Of course Castles were still being built for the real fast work but the GWR had plenty of routes that required strength but no great speed. Their leading dimensions and notional power made them much the equivalent of the Britannias and it always seemed odd that they were rated only as a class 6. Perhaps they just didn't "go" as well as they should have done.

 

Dont recall whether the rating was given before or after the drop in Boiler pressure,but theres more to a rating than starting TE. how can you rate anything with the a grate area of a Black 5 any higher ?
They are building a P2 with a 250psi boiler, so that wont be a proper one then...itll do for me....

 

My Ian Allan ABC for 1952 (reprint) gives the Counties as 6MT with 280psi boilers.
As you say T.E. isn't everything. The 3100 class had a higher nominal TE than the 47xxs but are classified as 4MT rather than 7F as the latter were as the former were effectively designed for banking.

 

Which brings me back to my original question: why not build a new boiler in the first place? Tornado was the big exceptional achievement, but everyone from the G5 to the Patriot and other new build schemes have managed to successfully start or have built a boiler. I just find it very odd to use a boiler which - accepted - has some similarities but enough of that boiler was cut away to mean you're effectively riveting on old metal to new. Why not just go all new and have it pressed for 280lb or 250lb?

I'm sure everyone involved was well meaning but reducing the potential pool of 8F boilers (never mind reducing the pool of 8Fs, and a particularly historic one at that) just seems wasteful to me given what's being used for the new boiler.

 

Well they havent destroyed all the boiler. Anyone who wants the barrel or other parts from the 8F can enquire to David Bradshaw (chairman of the patriot and founder of the county project) as he has been given the task of disposing of all the remaining bits of the loco or it might just be the boiler bits. Either way if anyone reading this actually wants a barrel for an 8F then speak to him.

 

Has anyone from the GWS or County group stated that the County boiler will definitely be pressed to 225psi, or will it actually be 250psi?

 

I would have thought that the barrel is the cheapest and easiest to make part of a boiler and the firebox the opposite.

 

From speaking with Richard Watkins of LNWR Crewe im 90% sure he said it will run at 225psi. But it was about 18 months ago that i last asked. Ill quickly ask someone now.

 

If they decided on a new boiler, they would then have to manufacture new cylinders as the ones fitted are from a Hall, as the studding for the end covers would probably not support 280 psi but maybe 250 ?

 

I'm sure that's well meaning but I can't see there would be many takers compared to if it were the whole boiler. How much of the firebox are they actually using?

 

That's if you don't count a certain Kiwi gentleman.

 

You may be right about complications in the light of how matters turned out but it must be remembered that Bulleid expected his chain gear to require less maintenance. This was changed to Walschaerts in the rebuilds and his cladding was dropped but most of his other details were retained. Also both the MNs and the WC/BBs had 6'2" wheels like the subsequent Standards of classes 5 to 8. Bulleid's three cylinders gave a 14% slower piston speed than those which was one reason that they ran so freely. Incidentally, I've been to Invercargill; it has an end of the world feeling.

 

You need to educate your spell checker Mr. Stewart.

 

Edited! (I've been laying off the American spellers lately.......but could get going again!

 

Maybe that group with a Black 5 that hasn't got a boiler ?

 

Just wondering, how different are the boilers on the Black 5 and a 8F?
A Jubilee has a 3A, a 5 has a 3B and a 8F has a 3C. The some of figures seem similar but what about the physical dimensions?

 

Been discussed at length in a 44901 thread IIRC.

 

Ta, I'll have a search.

 

What a can of worms that is given that over the course of building 800+ 3c's a lot of dimensions did alter slightly dependant on materials used - To cut a long story IIRC a 3B has a smaller firebox than a 3A, the 3C has a similar firebox but shorter front barrel than a 3B.
The book 'Raising steam on the LMS' (Cook - RCTS) goes into some detail so if LMS26thingy or STD tank don't come on later I will look it up for you.

 

Found the dimensions on the Black 5 44901 thread, very interesting. So much for standardisation!