Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, May 22, 2016.
So what was the point of the whole exercise?
Re. the 47xx boiler "the no.1 is to be disguised by larger cladding to look like a no.7."
Is this fact? Are they really going to disguise a number 1 boiler?
Has this now been decided?
If so. I'm astonished...
This is what concerns me. GWS, which currently has very little in the way of operational steam, with engines often taken out of service 'prematurely' and a King which 6 years into its boiler certificate has done little more than trundle up and down the demonstration line, are currently building three 'new build' engines. Only one is looking likely to be 'authentic'. I don't mind attempts at improving performance and route availability (a la the P2 project or the 'cur down' King), but what is the point of producing an engine which superficially looks like one type but is actually something completely different?
The 4700 would have exactly the same power with a no1 or a no7 boiler. The difference comes with sustaining that power and the difference is also in the accuracy of the replica. I hadn't heard a No 1 was to be used, I'm disappointed if that's true.
I must admit that I'm puzzled by the current loco restoration/new-build policy at Didcot. They always had a well-deserved reputation for accurate and thorough restorations but that seems to have changed. I'm afraid that the pseudo County will be no more than an underpowered pastiche of a 10xx at the cost of the unique LNER built 8F and a perfectly restorable Modified Hall. The 47xx is only worth doing if it's done properly i.e. with a new cylinder block and and No7 boiler. Whilst I agree that the Saint is the nearest to "authentic" a lot of money could have been saved by using Maindy Hall's outside steampipe cylinder block and still accurately represent a Saint in it's later form. There would also be no need for the Atlantic conversion 'kit'. Of the recent 'restorations' in the attempt to backdate 5322 to its 1917 condition they have created a mongrel - old type cab, tapered buffers, parallel copper-capped chimney etc. but retaining the outside steampipe cylinder block which wasn't fitted until 1951 IIRC. Full marks, however, for the restoration of the steam railmotor.
Surely a lot of this, IMHO, wasted effort and cash could have been better spent on restoring some of the existing collection such as 7808, 5900, or 6697 some of which haven't steamed for the best part of 30 yrs. Maybe these aren't regarded as 'sexy' projects but one or more of these locos could have helped alleviate the GWS's current motive power shortage.
At the end of the day it's their collection, their money and it is, I assume, what their members want. Rant over.
I don't think its any great secret that with the society reaching 50 years this year, time is being taken to determine the way ahead for the next period. Obviously what that will produce remains to be seen. I'd be surprised however if there is a great appetite for more new builds - possibly the mooted Dean Single to fill a gap between Firefly and the Churchward era, but last I heard that was on a slow burner in the research phase, and probably won't involve cutting metal for some time yet - hopefully not until the Saint and County are clear of the works. Personally I hope that the skills developed in the new builds are retained and that those volunteers can be transferred to getting some of the static fleet overhauled in their turn. I wouldn't favour a policy of restoring everything at once because I agree that there are only so many that can be used on site at any time, loaning them out dilutes the comprehensive collection effect and so a sensible policy of timely releases from overhaul is what I would hope to see. The downside I suspect is that its easier to get a good start on fundraising for a new project which has novelty factor and rather harder to get "yet another Manor or Hall" in steam, however long that particular one has been sitting idle.
There's a lot of speculation here which is quite unsupported by anything I've read in GWS newsletters.
Can you transfer volunteers? Or do they work on what they do or don't choose?
Yes and no to both! You can set up an environment in which they want to continue beyond the end of their project so look around for something else to do even if its not their favourite loco etc. You can also allow an environment to develop so that they swear blind they'll never be back once they've finished this job.
Don't forget that the modified hall also provided a boiler for 6880, which is an exact replica of an original 'Grange', apart from the 3-row superheater which only a couple of 'Granges' had.
I certainly read that somewhere but I don't have time just now to look for it. Can someone closer to the action confirm or otherwise?
Unless I read proof from the GWS that the 47xx will be built using a disguised no.1 boiler, I shall consider this to be unsupported speculation.
I don't believe its either practicable or necessary to disguise a No 1 boiler, it could just be a good replica of 4700 as originally built, in which case I would hope it carries the number 4700 as a replica rather than 4709 as a new member of the class at that stage.
The Hall cylinder blocks couldn't be used because the boiler would be pitched too high (After rebuilding Saint Martin had a lower pitched boiler than the proper Halls so it's not just a case of 'reversing' that rebuild).
Probably the wrong place to be asking but did the counties have any sort of improvements to the steam circuit over older designs, other than the chimneys? I remember reading that an internally streamlined King front end in the style of Chapelon was drawn out, but never used, so as to whether it was something tested out on the county design?
It did, indeed, - but there still remain 2 'spare' No1 boilers off 2861 (at Didcot) and 2873 (at Tyseley). Are you going to "Steam at the Dock" at the w/e?
No, it will be a relief to learn they are still using the boiler from what was the sole surviving wartime LNE built 8F, a type also unrepresented in our national collection.
On the upside, however, maybe the 8F boiler can now be used on 44901 chassis instead of a Turkey one to create yet another mongrel. And the 8F cylinders are on another black 5 apparently.
The 8F boiler (the firebox anyway)is intended for use on the County, in case anyone is confused.
8F firebox mated to a No. 1 barrell? That woukd be a No. 2 for sure!
No: part of an 8F firebox mated to a new barrel similar to both the old one and the kind used on the Counties.
It's 4709 that (according to my understanding) will start off with (the whole of) a no. 1 boiler.
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