1300

I have seen a video of supposedly of 1300 on this train on the 40's weekend "out there" but I can't find it anywhere any longer.. I dont know if it's been pulled, but I know when I saw it there was something "interesting" about it thats not been mentioned in here yet.. until i find that video again i'm not saying. It was from a footer link on someone on this forum too. I saw it the day after the event and didnt think anything of it until this thread opened.. by which time the video has gone !
Someone on here has an interesting video and may not know it !

 

This one perchance? Around 5:30 in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWS0_Vuv ... re=related

 

No it's neither of the two 9min ones on You tube. Amongst other scenes from the weekend It shows 1300 alone on it's train leaving Summerseat, northbound, taken from the old goods yard towards the end of the day, where as all other takes on it, had it with the Jinty, plus footage of 5197, the DEMU. I cannot confirm which day of the 40s weekend the video was filmed (in fact I cannot find the video any more), but there's also an interesting few seconds of the footplate on the return journey.

I dont know I wasnt there, it could be a trick of the film and can't find the video anymore either, all I recall is I linked to it from someone's post in this forum on the Monday night so they must have uploaded it pretty quick, but (sorry for saying it, the editing wasnt brilliant) so maybe thats why they took it down ! We'd need to find who was online Monday night who went to the event ?

I may even have the video confused with a different day (but in either case it wasnt "normal" what I thought I saw in this video), but if it was the same day it may be relevent. I could debunk the video with 1 question.. did 1300 make it back to Bury at the front of the train ? (i.e. Tender first).

 

But, if you listen very carefully to the discussion between the footplate crew, at around 5.30 onwards, coupled with what they are actually doing, raises some serious questions that need answering.....

 

ask away

 

To prevent all the rumour and counter-rumour, Andi you might give us all the footplate take on the events and what happened once and for all?
Dan

 

the fireman side injector had packed in/stopped working, however the drivers side injector was operating and before the locomotive left Ramsbottom BOTH injectors were working fine.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

 

From the video it looked like the RH Back Head Injector was not picking up at all. Even on "HQ" I couldn't see what the water level was but - at that time - there might not have been too much to worry about immediately had there been plenty of water in the boiler.
However, if BOTH Injectors were not working at any stage then I think I would have 'failed' the loco and moved it to a nearby siding away from the public if possible.
If the boiler water level was really low then it's Fire Out of the firebox first and think how to move the train/deal with passengers second !
I'm intrigued that both injectors were, apparently, working.
The Inspector's report will make sobering reading I suspect.

 

Please explain?[/quote:y3r8ue4a]

Very sorry if i've got this wrong but i've always thought that it was the rapid loss of pressure and heat that damaged the boiler if a plug was dropped? Im sure you'll put me right.

 

Please explain?[/quote:ak63y6ja]

Very sorry if i've got this wrong but i've always thought that it was the rapid loss of pressure and heat that damaged the boiler if a plug was dropped? Im sure you'll put me right.[/quote:ak63y6ja]

Thats what ive always been told as well . but we shell let the experts tell us were we have gone wrong.

 

well there are plenty on here....

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusible_plug

 

I thought the fusible plugs were there to extinguish the fire and to prevent over heating and subsequent collapse of the firebox crown. If indeed the firebox is damaged to the extent as mentioned then it tells me the plugs should have melted before the crown became hot enough to buckle.

I cannot see why or how the pressure of the escaping steam from the plug could cause the crown to distort unless -1. the crown was particularly thin or -2. The plugs did not melt when they should have done causing the crown to become very much overheated and on the point of partial collapse.

To those who have ever witnessed a plug being dropped you certainley know about it.


Stan

 

I just posted the link - I don't claim to be an expert on such things. Seems plausible to me though.

 

The Plug's there as a WARNING. It's not going to extinguish a box full of fire. There's a very interesting book called "Locomotive Boiler Explosions" out there (forget the author). Worth a read.

Ultimately, if the driver wasn't happy with the injectors, he shouldn't have taken the engine. If he was in trouble with the water level, he should have stopped.

 

Would the loss of water via the fusible plugs at least have dampened the fire to prevent the firebox crown from becoming overheated ?
Obviously in this case it didnt?

Fusible plugs are a safety device as well as being a warning. (that is of course when "drop" correctly).

I would be interested to hear the findings of investigation.

Stan

 

My understanding of the purpose of fusible plugs is that they are purely a warning device and are a safety feature only as such.

By the time a plug melts the crown of the box will be almost, if not completely devoid of water thereby allowing it to overheat. Damage to a crown such as quilting occurs because the metal has become soft and plasticised and thus allows the steam pressure to distort it. If it isn't dealt with soon enough this could easily lead to a boiler explosion caused by the metal of the crown being forced off the stay thread and nut due to the plasticisation of the metal. This happened less than ten years ago in the States where a loco crew died due to faulty water gauges leading to the crown of a firebox overheating and being forced off the crown stays (although this loco wasn't fitted with fusible plugs rather it had an alternative means of warning)

I have always been taught, and followed, that as soon as a blowing/melted fusible plug is discovered the injectors should be put on immediately (if possible) AND the fire dropped to avoid further damage. The Maerdy peckett suffered a similar fate to 1300 a couple of years ago due to faulty water gauges giving a falsely high reading resulting in firebox quilting.

I hope that when this incident has been fully investigated a proper report will be published so that we can all take heed from it and hopefully avoid a repetition.

 

Doesn't a fusible plug protrude into the water space above the crown sheet by about an inch? So theoretically the plug should melt before the crown sheet becomes uncovered by water. Still not a clever thing to happen though.