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35011 General Steam Navigation

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by GSN, May 15, 2015.

  1. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    That's great to hear, and I hope for the best, this project is worth attention and success. I for one (among many others I'm sure) would love to see a Merchant Navy in it's orginal form, their one of my favourite classes, and any excuse to restore another one is all good in my books.

    Apologies if this is a question already answered, but once you have secured a home base for this project, is there any funding grant you might be able to apply for? I realise the heritahe lottery fund don't pay for new builds as such, but this is not strictly a new build and they could at least help pay for the rostoration of the existing components such as the frames and boiler.
     
  2. ghost

    ghost Well-Known Member

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    The GWS got lottery money for the restoration of the carriage and underframe sections of the railmotor, the lottery would not contribute to the new build engine section. I think this might show a useful precedent as the 35011 project is probably 50/50 restoration/new build.


    Keith
     
  3. siquelme

    siquelme Active Member

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    Hi,

    Its not a question I've been asked before on this forum so happy to answer. There are quite a few grants available around £3k - £20k which we can investgate once weve moved. We are a werid situation where we own the locomotive but until we get a new base secured and the locomotive moved we have one hand tided behind our back. Once we've moved we can hire a crane for the day whip the boiler off her and the wheels from under the frames which will allow us to get everything fully assessed and able to prodict an accurate costings of the restoration which we would need for the grants.

    The heritage lottery grants are a game changer for projects but judging by the application I saw when the MHR successfully applied for Canadian Pacific I'd be supprised if small locomotive societies would be successful for the amount of money that would be required to restore a Merchant Navy. We will seek expert advice before rulling anything out but it seems to be something that only established railways can do successfully now.
     
  4. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    I thank you for your swift reply, yes it does appear your somewhat stuck in limbo for now, though hopefully once a new base is found that will change. As for the difficulty in securing a grant from the heritage lottery fund, your probably correct that only a established heritage can achive getting such a large sum these days, though perhaps in that you could find an answer to your dificulties. Your project to restore a merchant navy to it's original form does have a unique merit to it, and if you could partner up with a heritage railway for it to be restored and based, the lottery fund might seriously consider your project.

    Of course another crucial element to getting such a grant like that, tends to need more a reason then just restoring a locomotive to working order, there has to be more to it then that. Like the MHR for example, they applied for a grant to recreate a train of the 50s as authentically as possible, which so happened to involve Canadian Pacific and a couple Bulleid carriages. Have a wider more in depth reason to getting the grant could be a big help, and I do have one possible idea, if you'll hear me out. Justa thought I had.

    If you partnered with the GWSR, and specifically the owning group of 35006, you could state to the lottery fund board that you wish to conserve and display the complete history of the merchant navy class to the public, in both it's original and rebuilt form. By having 35006 and 35011 together and operational, with perhaps a museum of sorts diplaying the history of the design and the class as well as your individual locos, you'd be THE group for demonstrating the full history and operation of the merchant navies. The only place in the country to see the class in both it's forms.

    I know, a bit of a far fetched idea, but one I thought might have some merit at least. Not so sure what your group would make of it.
     
  5. siquelme

    siquelme Active Member

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    It's not a far fetched idea and sounds like a good one but sadly with the Canadian Pacific grant has already gone down that road.

    We were recently told that we might be able to get a grant from the Scottish government to restore the locomotives boiler. With the locomotive being withdrawn with Bulleid boiler 1097 we have one of the original 10 that were built by North British in Glasgow. So thats something we are currently looking into.
     
  6. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    They have? I thought their idea was a broader one, displaying the history of a southern region steam in the 50s, not specifically the Merchant Navy itself. Plus if that was the case, it's strictly be accurate a disply of the class's history surely? They don't have an MN in it's original , and telling the complete story of the class will always be incomplete without an example of what your tying to restore.

    In anycase, I wish the best of luck in getting that potential scottish grant, though isn't the most complex job the frames? I'd imagine they must be very different to how they would be for a Merchant Navy in it's orginal form.
     
  7. siquelme

    siquelme Active Member

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    The most difficult task will be getting the funds for the project rather than anything engineering wise. We were just saying at Swanage this weekend because of the amount of Bulleids that survived and have been restored around 75% of the patterns we'd need to make certain components have already been made. This saves us so much time and money ... Got to love standardisation.
     
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  8. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Ah yes of course, an often overlooked advantage of restoring a member of a well represented class in preservation, there's plenty of sources for getting parts and patterns for such parts. Though I presume there must be some that will be unique to your project won't there? There may be original light bulleid around in quantity, but merchant navies are essentially bigger version of them, correct? Guess you could just enlarge the patterns I suppose.
     
  9. siquelme

    siquelme Active Member

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    There are some parts which are unique such as the central cylinder and the crank axle but the majority of parts can be used on us and the light Pacifics.

    There will be some standard components which no one has built yet in preservation such as a steam reverser and superheater header which we will have to tackle. But compared to other projects such as the Patriot, P2 and the other new builds we've got it easy


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  10. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Alright then, sounds like you got the engineering part down then, just need the actual money to do it now!

    Though just one more question, your going for the final form of it's air smoothed casing design right? Not any of the earlier forms? Would be nice to see it in Southern Bulleid Green...
     
  11. huochemi

    huochemi Active Member Friend

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    You might find this helpful as an assembly guide.:cool:
     

    Attached Files:

  12. siquelme

    siquelme Active Member

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    We will be aiming to restore to the condition she was in just before she was rebuilt. With all the issues the earlier style cabs had that led to being replaced there is no way we could get them past modern health and safety regulations.

    If 92 Squadron and Blackmoor Vale can wear Malachite green then why can't we ;-)



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  13. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Gets my vote. A BB, MN, WC malachite lineup would be very nice.
     
  14. siquelme

    siquelme Active Member

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    We had our AGM last month and had the almost complete Stuart Black prints on display and the BR Brunswick Green one was by far the most popular with our shareholders.


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  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

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    There's no accounting for taste :rolleyes:

    Tom
     
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  16. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    A period of re-education is needed it would seem. :)
     
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  17. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Well-Known Member

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    As someone who has a great success rate with Grant Funding in another field, don't be put off by what you hear.
    The people at HLF are duty bound to listen to what you have to say, and if they initially are unconvinced, they will let you know the areas to improve on.
    They want to give you the money, you just have to do a great justification to get it, something slightly different from the Norm, also helps.
    With all Grant Funding expect small hurdle to be placed in front of you all of the time at the start, keep patient, jump the hurdles, and eventually the doors will open.
    The backing of a major railway will help, a good base, engineering facilities, knowledge and workforce are all required.
    Don't just try HLF, there are many other sources for cash, I have found this out with time, and tapped into them at regular intervals.
    The main premise, don't be put off by knock backs.
     
  18. huochemi

    huochemi Active Member Friend

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    Is the form of the entity which owns the loco (which appears to be General Steam Navigation CIC according to the website, and which is a company limited by shares owned by private individuals, and prima facie according to the latest Confirmation Statement filed at Companies House, able to pay dividends), the most suitable for receiving grants?
     
  19. siquelme

    siquelme Active Member

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    C.I.Cs are available to apply for grants you just have to google Heritage lottery CIC awards and you get dozens of successful projects winning 5 and 6 figure awards.

    Grant applications are something we will be looking into in the future. Our current focus is getting a new base secured, working on the loco as often as we can, raising the profile of our project and getting the funds in place to get our crank axle fully funded.





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  20. huochemi

    huochemi Active Member Friend

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    Without knowing which specific examples you are looking at, one cannot be dogmatic, but to take an example from the first page of hits on that search term, Involve Heritage CIC (as an example and the only one I have looked up), is a company limited by guarantee whereas GSN CIC is limited by shares. The former is a more egalitarian way of incorporating a company as each member has the same votes and (lack of) financial interest as every other member. It depends on which way you want to go, but if indeed you really are looking for grants / third party support, I suspect it is better not to be limited by shares and to remove all suggestion of personal benefit.
     

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