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35011 General Steam Navigation

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by GSN, May 15, 2015.

  1. siquelme

    siquelme Member

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    Fundraising for GSN is a bit unique compared to other Barry wreck restorations. Using 2874 has a comparison as they started roughly the same time as our project and is a member of a class that has multiple survivors that have been restored. The 2874 chaps are able to fundraise whilst working regularly on there locomotive. At this stage most of the work involves taking the loco apart and surveying her this allows lots of progress to make that doesn’t require much financial outlay. Where we are different is we are unable to work on 35011 regularly due to her location all the progress we are making to keep the project moving forward is the way of making and producing new components which is the far more expensive route. We are very luckily in that we’ve got a loyal bunch of supporters who believe in our efforts who are happy to fund the work.

    Once we get the locomotive to a new base we’ll be able to get the real hands on work started and save up for some of the big ticket items. The Society is hopeful of a new base being announced early next year with a move to happen soon after. Once the locomotive is moved we’ll be hosting some open days to which enthusiasts will be welcome to attend and see for themselves the work we are making.

    Hopefully that make sense I’m writing this on my phone after a 12 hour shift at work. If anyone has any questions I’ll be happy to have a stab at answering them for you.



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  2. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    The biggest problem with using a spoon to dig a hole through a mountain is that you many need many generations of digging to complete the tunnel. The biggest problem we now face is that these sorts of projects need to be raising money, and quickly. It's alright saying "we have loads of engineers" but when the biggest problem you have is paying for brand new patterns, castings, machining etc which all costs lots of ££££ you need to be saying "we have loads of fundraisers". And a lot of the projects I look at don't have that. Raising £100,000 per year for 30 years will get you a Clan. But currently you are only raising £50,000 per year. That's 60 years before it's complete. And that's if all your members who are donating live that long. The simple fact is that unless a lot of the new build groups wake up to the fact that money is most important thing, then half of them will never turn a wheel in anger. And as someone who would love to see ALL of them steam I would be gutted. We at the patriot project have already booked a load of events to do fundraising at up until summer next year, with more to add into it. We were at the Peterborough model show last weekend, the Manchester one the weekend before, warley the weekend before that, GCR the weekend before that, our own event at Crewe before that. There are model shows, model engineering shows, steam galas etc dotted all throughout the year and there are hardly any groups that seem to attend these to push their projects. Some, like the B17 spirit of Sandringham, seem to be out a lot and other only do it 3 times a year. If you are not willing to push your project how do you expect it to be built. It's my biggest annoyance that others don't come across as trying. For those of you that have read the issues of Steam railway you'll see that a lot of the new build groups have not had the best of write ups.

    I don't want anyone to think I'm slating the groups, I just want them to realise what they need to do to achieve their goals.
     
  3. PC5020

    PC5020 New Member

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    I too have mentioned before that it is, at the end of the day, all about money. Few have the nerve to contribute at the start. But nothing goes forward without taking the plunge. You are correct the road ahead is long but you have to start. With a good
    team and a interesting project you have a go and show progress. As time goes on this will attract more supporters. A project that moves ahead steadily even if slowly is what is needed.
    Will I live long enough to see it run? Don't know. Seeing the process of it coming back to life is good enough for me. Which is why Im a supporter (meaning I put my money where my mouth is).
    Join us.
     
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  4. class8mikado

    class8mikado Member

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    There are many restorations that have taken decades and plenty of new builds that may also take as long. A project that has little to show for many hours and many thousands of pounds may not look like a good bet, but there comes a point when all of a sudden it starts to look like a steam engine and (fingers crossed) then confidence follows belief, membership and contributions grow and the pace picks up. Being able to stick with your project up the long drag from machining the odd nut to ordering a boiler / boiler overhaul is something to be admired not chided for.
     
  5. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    I've taken the plunge too (and this isn't even a GWR loco!) and I do hope I live to see it running.
     
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  6. Azrall

    Azrall New Member

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    I've also joined the society and even bought a share or two. Having kept a close eye on the project, it appears to have come on leaps and bounds compared to others. Yes, GSN is a Barry wreck and yes it'll cost a lot of money, time, blood, sweat and tears. But It's the sort of project I'd like to get my teeth into.

    That and I have a soft spot for Spam cans....
     
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  7. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Member

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    Does GSN have a tender? Reason I ask is that, talking to James Tawse of Boscastle fame last weekend, he mentioned that their tender is to receive a new body (to the design Boscastle ran with when first rebuilt) on the existing frames as part of the current restoration. But also that the current frames are ex-MN frames which apparently differ from WC/BB frames.

    Now, this is nothing to do with me at all and maybe either party wouldn’t be interested or finances/timescales wouldn’t align, but it occurred to me that if someone were to build a new set of WC/BB tender frames they could probably swap them for an original set of MN frames, increased authenticity all round.

    As I said, just an idea...!

    Guess the old MN tank from Boscastle is probably past its best, maybe no use?


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  8. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    If I needed to build a set of tender frames, logic says I would build it for me rather than build it and then swap it for a second hand one, however authentic it might be.
    Unless someone paid me handsomely of course.
     
  9. siquelme

    siquelme Member

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    GSN was one of the Bulleids that lost her tender when several were bought a local steel company to be converted to hoppers.

    Building tenders for Bulleids is a well walked path giving how many have been built over the years. The main difference I believe is the axleboxes which the new ones being built with later readily available off the shelf components rather than the Bulleid design.



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  10. marshall5

    marshall5 Member

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    I always thought that the tender chassis from Barry went to Briton Ferry steelworks as ingot carriers. I've never heard of any being converted to hoppers and I would have thought that the centre axle would be a bit of an encumbrance. Where did this information come from?
    Ray.
     
  11. siquelme

    siquelme Member

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    That’s what I meant, forgot what the actual name was and hopper just seemed a good term to use.


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  12. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Member

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    Hi, James said that the WC tender frames were flat topped and the MN ones had a recess for increased water capacity, which is why the WC ones were used in the steelworks and the MN ones ended up being bought by WC owners.

    My thought was that a flat topped one is probably easier to build but of course, since nobody but a rivet counter will notice the difference, they have no reason to build new frames for Boscastle.

    Anyway like I said it was only an idea...


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  13. hussar1028

    hussar1028 New Member

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    The idea that the Bulleid 4500/5500 gallon tenders were preferred by the steelworks because they didn’t have a well tank has never occurred to me before. They took plenty of GWR Churchward 3500 gallon tenders that were fitted with well tanks. Looking at the sketches in J H Russell’s book Southern Locomotives the Maunsell 3500 gallon tenders also had a well tank and at least one of these, possibly three, ended up as ingot carriers. In addition the Bulleid 5100 gallon tender from 35011 and the Bulleid 6000 gallon tender from 35022 became ingot carriers and these both had well tanks. I wouldn’t entirely disagree with James reasoning but I wonder whether it was also what was easiest to reach in Woodham’s yard.
     
  14. OldChap

    OldChap New Member

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    I would reason that as some Bullied Merchant Navy locomotives, like say 35006/35018 were withdrawn in 08/64 and were further up the yard out of harms way where as 35011 was withdrawn 02/1966 and 35022 05/1966 and were later arrivals to the yards increasingly stuffed sidings.

    So by 1969 (when Woodhams fulfilled a contract for Cashmores to supply 25 chassis to DuPont at Briton Ferry as ingot carriers) these later arrivals were nearer the cutting area at Woodhams and therefore lost their tenders as a matter of convenience for the chaps with the gas axes, where as locomotives like 35006 and 35018 retained theirs to be sold into preservation.

    I have seen some photos of these converted tenders and the centre wheelset were routinely removed to assist with the tight radius curves in the works and the tank cut down as far as the base of the tank leaving the base plate work in place, I'm not sure a well would have made much difference to the use of such a ingot carrier.
    upload_2019-2-17_19-43-29.jpeg

    Picture Source: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/i...8-mystery-tender-chassis-duport-briton-ferry/
     
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  15. 73129

    73129 Member

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    I presume all the tender chassis regardless if they were Bulleid tenders or not were scrapped after the steel works had finished with them.

    Cheers
     
  16. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Not all of them - Camelot’s tender chassis was ex-Briton Ferry.

    Tom
     
  17. hussar1028

    hussar1028 New Member

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    And the tender with 92240 at present. A third chassis from a Bulleid WC/BB class was also rescued for use with 34059. However its condition was too poor to be reused though some components were kept. In addition several groups had various spares from the remaining chassis at Briton Ferry.
     
  18. hussar1028

    hussar1028 New Member

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    What neither Old Chap or I have considered is that by Spring 1969 43924 was already out of the yard and therefore shunting of the locos had already started. Looking at pictures in 1967/68/69 there does seem to have been some limited movement of locos. I don’t think that locos just arrived and were propelled up a siding never to be touched until the early 1970’s. Also possibly the sidings werent filled up evenly. If a whole siding was filled then the next siding was filled the first siding would have fairly old arrivals that would be accessible. If should be noted that this is just my view from looking at a few of the photos on Flickr rather than from in-depth research!
     
  19. toplight

    toplight Member

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    There was a detailed letter in one issue of Steam railway magazine from someone who had been involved in saving them and quite a lot was saved including also a set of GWR cylinder blocks from Briton Ferry. I think these have already been used on the 28xx at the SVR as the originals became cracked. One LMS tender chassis was used (and still is) behind Class 5 73096 and apparently the LMS chassis was 6" shorter than a BR one so they made a BR tank for it but 6" shorter to suit the chassis.
     
  20. OldChap

    OldChap New Member

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    After 43924 left, followed quickly in March 69 by GWR 2-6-0 5322 Mr Woodams men kept working cutting the wagons and rail that arrived in the yard, they contracted BR to shunt when they had to, so vehicles were only moved around when they had a need, which wasn't really that often, also by autumn 1968 more locomotives were still arriving, 48151, 48305, 61264, 73096, 73129,73156, 76077, 77079, 76084 & 92212. Things did move about but it cost money to do so.
     

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