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35018 British India Line

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 34014, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Would you preferred to have had a diesel assisting because that would have been the only other option , but 35018 didn't fail on the road, she was failed at the NRM when the Big end was deemed to have failed, hopefully she will be repaired at York and then return to Carnforth hopefully the faults found on the tour will be sorted out before her next venture out.
     
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  2. 8126

    8126 Member

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    I believe the Brocklebank Line testing at Swindon was to isolate the cause of a tendency to axlebox knock that the early rebuilds were developing. It was discovered that one end of the cylinder was doing rather more work than the other when the engine was hot and the valve settings were adjusted accordingly, which apparently promptly solved the problem. An original drives at the centre of the valve assembly, a very different configuration for that sort of issue.

    In answer to a query raised by @class8mikado the maximum recorded steaming rate for a Merchant was 42000 lb/hr I seem to recall, with 35022 on the rollers at Rugby. Sufficient, as Rolls-Royce used to say.
     
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  3. summerof67

    summerof67 New Member

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    I think if it was to make the train safer and more reliable, yes, a diesel would be adviseable. As I first mentioned, I thought NR had restricted WC to 10 or 11 coaches from the problems of two years ago? 13 coaches, plus a load of 50 tons in passengers is a big train for a first run. the big end clearly failed on the way as per youtube footage.
     
  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Don't follow the logic and I don't recognise your 10/11 coach comment. An unassisted Class 8 with up to 13 is normal - e.g. Tornado/Clan Line/Duchess etc - provided that there isn't a particular need for support on the route which was not the case between Carnforth and York. Neither was the time of year a factor that might have been true in November (leaf fall etc). I agree that 12 might have been more prudent but either the locomotive was judged to be fit to run or it wasn't and presumably it was felt that her last loaded test run presented no problems for that decision to have been made about the Lune Rivers trip.
     
  5. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    It seems that the application of 20/20 hindsight is in full swing :)
     
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  6. sycamore

    sycamore Member

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    I guess in the absence of a livery debate, a train length debate will have to suffice :)
     
  7. summerof67

    summerof67 New Member

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    I mention the 10/11 coaches item as a part of the NR inquiry at the time - that's all. No doubt someone can look it up. Let's hope the loco is repaired soon as it will be great to see another MN in operation ,particularly this one with so much history to it. I still feel that locos are pressed into traffic far too early after a big restoration.
     
  8. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    In the case of BIL, it has actually been quite a while between the first steaming and the trip last weekend, so much so that a few uninformed comments on here have been a little impatient about the apparent delay. Surely you have to rely on the people able to make the right judgement on such things - i.e. the engineers working on the locomotive. The only pressure on getting the locomotive on the road has been what I guess was the need to synchronise the return of BIL with the end of ticket for Scots Guardsman and that timing has been known about for months. Sadly of course, there will now be a further delay while BIL is attended to and presumably further tests are carried out.
     
  9. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Lets assume for a minute the engine had not failed, and ran without any problem, would the pressure be any less? everyone would be shouting send her over shap, over the s&c, etc, An bearing can fail, it happens, its clear that something in the steam circuit at the front end needs further attension, but i'm sure that the engineering team will have a better idea now of where the fault is, and how to fix it, perhaps it took a gamble to see if the repairs done since the last test had worked, sometimes if the engine is apparently ok on an FTR then you run it, at that point the bearing was ok and a run to york way have been the best way to prove it, or otherwise , knowing there was another engine at York .
     
  10. summerof67

    summerof67 New Member

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    I rest my case.
     
  11. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

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    Could a big end problem even be identified any earlier or was it always case of sucking it and see by running the loco in anger? I'm sure many components on a "new" loco have a degree of the "unknown" to them, that would only lessen with further runs. No doubt some fettling was always anticipated but perhaps not this. As has been said before, anything mechanical has the potential to fail at any time. Lots of parts that need to work happily with one another. It's not like BIL rolled off a Toyota production line!

    Credit where credit is due - they turned out a fantastic looking machine that performed well. Now, in the big picture of turning a wreck into a powerful, reliable mainline performer there is a slight setback - they will fix it. :)
     
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  12. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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  13. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Not certain what the case is that you have rested.
    You argue that the loco went out too soon. Unless you are part of the engineering team, you just can't know.
    You suggest that the load may have been too much. If the bearing was to go then the load (10,11,12,13) would have been immaterial.
     
  14. summerof67

    summerof67 New Member

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    Thank god it was green!
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I'd welcome a link to the Youtube footage that indicated a middle big end had failed so I can see for myself. Was the camera mounted between the frames?
     
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  16. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Great hissing globs of white metal on the ballast after she had past... clear as day !;)
     
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  17. NSWGR 3827

    NSWGR 3827 New Member

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    I though so too, check out page 3 2nd last paragraph.
    http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf...-17-decision-letter-to-west-coast-railway.pdf
    Unless something has changed since.
     
  18. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Has it, you will have to point me to where it has been confirmed that the damage was caused by the loading on the train.... :rolleyes:
     
  19. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Did you actually read the whole letter, as that was the prohibition notice which has subsequently been lifted once can reasonably assume that quite a lot has changed since then for the prohibition notice to be lifted?
     
  20. Dobbs0054

    Dobbs0054 Member

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    Since then NR have issued guidance for loadings relative to loco power classification on a variety of routes that cover normal and autumn running without assistance. 13 on a Class 8 running Carnforth to York was acceptable.
     
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