If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

35018 British India Line

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 34014, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    8,239
    Likes Received:
    5,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Freelance photo - journalist
    Location:
    Southport
    So how do you identify the kinetic envelope from the sideways movement / oscillation that arises at different speed ranges ?
     
  2. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,414
    Likes Received:
    2,729
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chester le Street County Durham
    Thought NR had a fancy measuring device for agreeing gauging with loco's, have certainly seen it on Ian Riley's site, when they did FS.
     
  3. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,315
    Likes Received:
    16,391
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    More likely to get at the valves. I never did understand why Bulleids have outside admission valves, it must be harder to keep them steam tight
     
  4. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,540
    Likes Received:
    692
    Outside admission valves are fine on original Bulleid Pacifics......
     
    siquelme likes this.
  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,063
    Likes Received:
    20,773
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It's all to do with access and on gauging, I would be very surprised if the loco wasn't gauged long before it turned a wheel in anger. The problem is that whilst the loco doesn't change its dimensions, the railway that it runs on does. :rolleyes:
     
  6. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    6,573
    Likes Received:
    3,950
    Occupation:
    Design Engineer
    Location:
    Cumbria
    If you like uneven beats !:)

    But yes without the valve glands at the ends of the cylinder block it does become easier to keep outside admission valves steam tight. It makes you wonder why they did not do a proper job and change them to inside admission when they rebuilt them. . .;)
     
  7. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    35,121
    Likes Received:
    20,771
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Only if things aren't set up properly. :p
     
  8. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    912
    Likes Received:
    928
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Because new cylinders would have been required.
     
  9. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    6,573
    Likes Received:
    3,950
    Occupation:
    Design Engineer
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Yes I know that, but they changed a great deal of other things why stop with a relatively minor thing (in those days) and go the whole hog and replace the outside cylinders as well. I guess we'll never know the real answer and we'll have to live with the odd weep now and again (and possibly more work repacking glands).
     
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,099
    Likes Received:
    57,414
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Not quite true. They changed things that were either visually or operationally prominent (cladding, reverser mechanism etc) but in terms of actual metal, very little changed - boiler, cab, frames, wheels, tender etc all retained. I’ve heard an estimate that more than 90% of the originals was unchanged. With regard cylinders, they worked without issue and were nowhere near life expired, so there was no financial case to change them when the motion could be adapted at the design stage to work with the original outside admission valve chests on the outside cylinders.

    How “rebuilds” of locos are considered seems fraught with enthusiast prejudice. Lots of pre-grouping locos got new boilers of different design, maybe all sorts of other changes but are considered still to be the “original” work of their designer if they have sufficient popularity. Whereas Bulleid’s Pacific’s retained 90% of their original fabric, yet are considered a shocking waste, and any good points in the rebuilds are invariably ascribed to Jarvis! No-one talks about the Drummond Well Tanks that worked out their days at Wadebridge, but there’s far more Drummond (and Adams, and Maunsell) in them than Beattie, and far more Drummond in 30585 than there is Jarvis in 35018!

    Tom
     
    Steve, Romsey, John Petley and 8 others like this.
  11. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    912
    Likes Received:
    928
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Because if you changed the valves to inside admission you would have to rearrange the steam and exhaust pipes and the valve gear. For inside admission the combination lever has the valve spindle pin below the radius rod pin, the opposite is true for outside admission. Apart from the combination lever the expansion link, eccentric rod, return crank and possibly the main crankpin would need to be changed. There may be alternative modern sealing arrangement which could reduce the maintenance required on the valve spindle glands. After all piston rod gland are often subject to the same pressures when the loco is working hard.
     
    gms2, jnc and 60017 like this.
  12. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    6,573
    Likes Received:
    3,950
    Occupation:
    Design Engineer
    Location:
    Cumbria
    And as you've changed the inside cylinder AND the two outside cylinders don't you think the steam and exhaust passages (in the cylinders themselves) will be changed and then all you have to change is the main steam pipe(s?) which are after all replaceable items. As for the valve gear - I don't think there was a Return Crank in the original design however I don't know how much of the rest of the original gear was reused when rebuilt when those chains went into the scrap bin, perhaps others can answer.
     
  13. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    912
    Likes Received:
    928
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    All the valve gear must have been replaced because all three sets were between the frames
     
  14. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    6,573
    Likes Received:
    3,950
    Occupation:
    Design Engineer
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Yep that's what I thought too, although others may know more if any of it was reused.
     
  15. Hirn

    Hirn Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2015
    Messages:
    462
    Likes Received:
    295
    Gender:
    Male
    Outside admission does give an advantage for the exhaust passage from the valve chest - which can be effectively larger and straighter to the blast pipe, minimising
    back pressure which is well worth some trouble.
    The cost of it is a gland at steam chest pressure which was accepted to reuse the original outside cylinders on the rebuilds.

    Note: with traditional slide valves the glands all had full steam chest pressure on them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
    Johnb likes this.
  16. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,002
    Likes Received:
    7,891
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Nice to see BIL on a test run today. Fingers crossed she has a trouble-free trip around the circuit with no leaks!
     
    Johnb and martin1656 like this.
  17. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,861
    Likes Received:
    9,238
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Tobacco manufacturing
    Location:
    Kendal
    No such luck John , loads of steam coming from the fireman’s side
     
  18. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,567
    Likes Received:
    2,345
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    What, overheated fireman ;) ?
     
    andrewshimmin and 60017 like this.
  19. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,002
    Likes Received:
    7,891
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired from corporate slavery :o)
    Location:
    Fylde Coast
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Well, she made it to Hellifield GL 8 mins early, so I live in hope!
     
  20. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    17,609
    Likes Received:
    11,222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    just looked at some photos taken this morning and posted on the light engine & tests thread, whilst there is clearly still leaks around the area of the RH cylinder its certainly not as bad, or doesnt appear to be as bad as in previous shots, something looks to be very difficult to get steam tight ,
     

Share This Page