3855

Exactly.... made for the job.

 

Work to date has taken place at a number of locations, no decision has been made as to where the restoration will conclude.

Bagnall 2680 is more than adequate for Ribble Steam Railways requirements be they passenger or freight ...

 

Ta muchly.... I will leave you in peace now!

 

I know you posted the request for a tender number along time ago and you may already have the answer. In case you haven't though I am certain this is not the tender that arrived with 2874 at Barry. There are several photos on Flickr, the earliest dated May 1966 showing 2874 without a tender. Woodhams either scrapped or sold a number of GWR tenders in the mid to late 1960's before the more extensive disposal of mainly SR Bulleid and BR Standard tenders in the late 1960's to Duports at Briton Ferry Steel Works

 

With the benefit of some more information via Terry Rippingale it turns out the tender is the one that left Barry intended for 2874. Still no idea what its number is though!

 

Andy,

Could you perhaps update the thread on the current state of restoration of the loco/tender?

Thanks

Keith

 

Positively identifying the preserved GWR tenders appears to quite a challenge. I've been researching it a bit with the aid of the VCT. Quite a few surviving tenders are of dubious or unknown identity. All it seems all you can really do is hunt for numbers on components and hope you get lucky and find something helpful. It seems people often don't find any more identification. There's a good deal of grandfathers axe about them too, since several surviving tenders clearly acquired new and later design frames during their GWR/BR lives, and tanks often have to be replaced. To make matters worse the GWR doesn't ever seem to have designed a tender with a blank sheet of paper, and so earlier tenders could get later components and so on. Even the superficially very different Hawksworth tenders seem (if I can trust my reading of the drawing register) to have most suspension components in common with the later type Collett era chassis.

A nice example of the grandfather's axe is that one preserved group run with the tender number that their loco is believed to have had when it entered Barry. They think that's probably the tender it left Barry with, but can't be certain, because they didn't find any numbers in spite of looking, and tenders were shuffled around. However their chassis was getting tired, and they managed to obtain another one, also unidentifiable, so they put the major components of that chassis on their tender, keeping the same tank and all the other fittings, and left the number unchanged. They then sold the other bits of chassis to another preservation group, who have since built a complete tender around the pieces with a new tank, failing to find any definitive numbers. Since then the our first preservation group have had to build a new tank. So their tender still has the number they think was correct for the tender at Barry, but since then its had new tank and replacement frames, although many minor components are still the same!

 

While several loco histories read like that of Bentley 'Old No. 1', this sounds like a more homespun version of the Strange Case of The Duplicate D-Types

 

The boiler has recently been detubed. Thoughts are turning to loco platework. Not consuming much time or money at the moment!

 

Thanks for the update. Is the tender finished now?


Keith

 

My ELR colleagues inform me that 3855 moved into the loco works today, which i must say was an unexpected but pleasant surprise. I'd wager good money that its the first time the loco has been undercover since 1965. The tender remains in storage at Ribble Steam Railway.

 

With regard to tender numbers. We recently carried out research on 6024's current tender after initially assuming it was the one it finally ran with in service. During a post-preservation overhaul the number 2425 was found stamped on brake hanger parts. More recently the same number was noted just discernible towards the top of the brake standard - just below the operating handle. The general view around the GWR fraternity is that the number on the brake standard indicates the 'true' tender identity. So we think that bit of research is concluded. Hope you have success determining your tender's identity.

 

I recently sat down with a lot of photos of tenders at Barry and Blaenavon to see if I could work out which loco this tender had arrived at Barry with and think I have come up with an answer. By the time Terry Rippingale bought the locos there were relatively few tenders left so a number could be eliminated automatically. It also has snaphead rivets on the tank and a Dean/Churchward chassis, this eliminates a few more.
Two pictures from its days at Blaenavon

https://www.flickr.com/photos/crayz...Hfd-7Uj7Cn-7Uj7qB-7Uj7vX-7Sbq7k-7Sbqea-7SeFA3

https://www.flickr.com/photos/crayz...Hfd-7Uj7Cn-7Uj7qB-7Uj7vX-7Sbq7k-7Sbqea-7SeFA3

And two pictures of 2873 at Barry

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dubde...vc-nDaCFk-kaNTG3-S5Jxer-22h6Hqu-G8uzAY-dQRdrT

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brist...vc-nDaCFk-kaNTG3-S5Jxer-22h6Hqu-G8uzAY-dQRdrT

In the first picture at Blaenavon and the picture taken by Dubdee at Barry there is a distinctive bent rear handrail at the back corner on the right hand side. The second Blaenavon picture and Robert Tarling's photo at Barry show a large hole in the same position below the side fender.

So I am pretty confident that the tender with 3855 now was originally coupled to 2873 when it arrived at Barry. As to the tender number, 2873 was withdrawn in March 1965 which was after the Western Region had stopped keeping detailed records. So all I can say is that the last recorded tender on the Loco Record Card was no 2235 fitted on 23/3/1962 at Swindon (and the last entry on the card is dated 23/4/1963 so presumably there had been no change up to then). However tenders were changed frequently on GWR locos so there is certainly no guarantee that this is the tender that 2873 arrived at Barry with.

Justin

 

That's a good bit of detective work Justin!

Keith

 

Apologies in advance if this is slightly 'off topic' but when were the tenders sold to Briton Ferry steelworks as ingot carriers? A recently published photo of Barry dated 1969 shows several locos sans tenders but I thought it was later than that. I do remember that it mostly involved the Bulleid and B.R. standard tenders, and one chassis survived to be preserved, but were any ex G.W. ones sold to Briton Ferry?
Cheers,
Ray.

 

There are various snippets on the forum about tenders that went from Woodham's to Briton Ferry. The bulk of them went in Spring 1969, some may have gone earlier or just been cut up by Woodhams. I can confirm GWR ones did go to Briton Ferry from Woodham's in 1969 along with LMS, SR and BR tenders. The Industrial Railway Record no. 232 March 2018 published by the Industrial Railway Society has a 5 page article on these tenders including photos at Briton Ferry. Quite a lot of spares and three complete chassis were purchased from Briton Ferry in 1978. These were two BR1 chassis (now with 73082 and 92240) and a Bulleid standard chassis as found with WC/BB locos. This was subsequently cut up with some parts incorporated into a new build for 34059.

Justin

 

Certainly GW tenders went to Briton Ferry and at the time the cylinder blocks from previously scrapped locos were rescued for 2857 (to use) and 4150 (still held spare) we recovered 3 tender wheelsets and at least 14 GW tender springs plus misc small parts. That would be in the early 1980's. The wheelsets have since seen use under the 4000g tender until recently with 7802 having been retyred whist the previous set were still use. I suspect Woodham also cut up some tenders from surviving locos pre 1969 as several photos show tenderless locos and cutting tenders was far easier & quicker than cutting the locos themselves. I would really like to see a copy of the IRS article referred to, Can anybody post a specific issue reference please?

 

In the "Camelot - From Barry to Bluebell" book, it's noted that they obtained 73082's tender in 1978. At that time apparently the works was closing and the remaining tenders were being cut up and melted down, so sounds like it was a bit of a race against time. Supposedly the chassis they obtained was the best of the remaining BR1 underframes, though still not in good condition; it cost £500 which was seen as something of a bargain! Interestingly, they obtained the tender a few months before they had concluded the purchase of the locomotive. There is a photo of 73082 standing next to 34059 in Barry in May 1979; neither has a tender, though interestingly behind Camelot there is an unattached Bulleid tender and behind that an unattached GWR one of some description.

Tom